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oh

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[Music]

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hello everybody and welcome back to the

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disclosure team youtube channel and this

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is a conversation that i've been looking

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forward to for some time now um

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originally we started out with four

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guests unfortunately dr gary nolan

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couldn't make it which is fair enough

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and then unfortunately today uh kevin

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knuth came down um not feeling very well

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so

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send my best wishes to kevin but um we

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do have three gentlemen here for for the

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discussion so first of all um

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rich hoffman has a ba in organizational

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communications from wright state

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university he is an information

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technology consultant and strategist he

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has worked as a defense contractor for

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over 20 years working primarily for the

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army material command hq with a variety

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of companies

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currently mr hoffman works as an

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enterprise architect at redstone arsenal

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and the marshall space flight center in

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huntsville alabama he has over 54 years

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of experience investigating and

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researching the ufo subject

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so let me please introduce mr rich

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hoffman rich how are you doing

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i'm well thanks how are you vinnie

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i'm doing very well thank you

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next up michael masters received his ba

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in anthropology and french in 2000 from

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ohio university in athens ohio and

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completed his phd at the ohio state

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university in columbus in 2009

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he has taught biological anthropology

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cultural anthropology archaeology

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economic anthropology and globalization

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sociology and cultural diversity of the

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ohio state university

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and a number of other places his

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research includes investigating hominin

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biocultural evolution astrobiology

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astronomy and the physics of time as

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they relate to the ufo phenomenon please

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welcome dr michael massey

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michael how are you doing great good to

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see you again vinnie thank you very much

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always pleasure good to see you too

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and finally matthew cedargas received

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his ba ms and phd from the university of

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chicago in 2005 2006 and 2011

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respectively then continued his work in

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physics as a postdoctoral scholar at the

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university of california davis since

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2014 he has been a professor at the

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university of albany department of

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physics pursuing experimental particle

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astrophysics matthew is also a member of

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uapx and recently featured in the

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documentary a tear in the sky so please

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welcome professor matthew chadargus

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matthew am i saying your name okay

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i guess yeah yeah you did a good job

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yeah thank you so much that's been

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so thank you gentlemen so much and

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matthew thank you because i know this is

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very short notes for you and it's really

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truly appreciated that's okay

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um i'd love to start this conversation

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off with a discussion on the recent

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congressional hearings that that just

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happened so

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and let's start with you rich i know

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that the scu submitted some questions

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for

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just go over some of the important

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questions that you did submit and the

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importance of them

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thank you uh

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actually i'm not prepared to talk about

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the questions

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sorry about that i can uh i can go into

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the details of how we led up to the

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questions

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for the most part what we did is we

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started off uh like looking and saying

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well we need to be able to get something

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up there to the hill to basically help

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carry on the conversation and also

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inform

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a lot of the uh the individuals that

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would be attending or other congress

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congressional leaders

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and so we as a group begin drafting some

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questions that were relating to

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you know the subject of uh that was on

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hand and wanting to know more

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uh and we basically went through and

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pretty much collaborated with a whole

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variety of people to go and get those

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questions ironed out

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uh sadly i'm aware of the fact that uh

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having watched that that they weren't

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asked

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and and they weren't even a lot of them

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were not even addressed in the actual

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hearing

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like many i think i was pretty

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disappointed by

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just overall what they didn't talk about

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and also i was very disappointed that

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they didn't

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seem to have a good understanding of

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even the history of the actual phenomena

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itself

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when you when you're going in front of

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an intelligence committee you would

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think that if you mention something

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along the lines of the the uh the

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nuclear cases that have been well

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publicized and are all over the board

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that you would certainly expect that

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they they would the individuals of a

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briefing would be able to mention that

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especially since that they're allegedly

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the head of uap projects right

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and so uh i was very taken back by that

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uh not that i expect them to know what

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happened before project blue book and

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the various projects like sign and

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grudge but nevertheless about a nuclear

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question you'd expect that that would be

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something that they could talk about so

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i came away pretty much disappointed i

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think a lot of the people that i saw in

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not having the questions addressed as

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well as also finding out uh

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you know just that they didn't cover

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that was disappointed

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we do have the questions by the way

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online so they are available at our

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website so you can go up and take a look

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at them

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um and so i encourage people to do that

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at explorespu.org

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and i'll just shut up for a minute and

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let you ask the other people

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no problem thank you okay should i jump

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in on that maybe rich could actually

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answer this better um

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it seems to me

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i i've only been researching the ufo

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aspect of this

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for

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probably 10 years compared to rich's 50s

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so he might have better insight on this

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but it seems to me that from the very

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beginning it was the air force that was

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involved with all of this and with

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ruppel and all the different committees

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um

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i mean obviously the office of special

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investigations is always a name that

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comes up in interrogating witnesses

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especially military witnesses so where

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are they in all of this i haven't seen

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them

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even make a peep this entire time and it

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i guess from from my point of view it

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seems that we're not going to get any

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meaningful information until they're

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involved

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i'd be happy to answer that because i do

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work in the dod and i can also tell you

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about some of the challenges that they

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have from a dod context especially and

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also working cooperatively and in

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conjunction with the ic part of that

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you know there's a title 10 and title 50

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organizations here uh then you're also

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talking about bringing in things like

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noaa and nasa

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uh and a whole bunch of other

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organizations that not i mean a lot of

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these organizations have not been

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investigating ufos

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that's not even a topic that they

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address and so

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what i picked up from the hearings was a

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lack of maturity of their overall

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program and processes

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so i think that what's happened is that

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it's gone from an unfunded

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task force that was made up of people

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that were working other duties as

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assigned that didn't have official

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positions and getting resourced

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to the point where now what they're

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doing is they're trying to get their

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structure built up they're also trying

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to be able to get cooperation from

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government agencies which is not always

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easy to do by the way

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and to then bring all that stuff

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together if you would

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into some cohesive like maybe database

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or structure where they can actually do

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something about it

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so you're absolutely right michael that

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going back to when i got started it was

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project blue book in dayton ohio and

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that was an air force project they were

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responsible for it at that time yeah

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right that wasn't it

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yeah right pat that's where i lived i

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lived uh just down the street from right

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pat in fact i went over to project blue

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book when i was still

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there uh

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so i got to know the parties and the

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players in fact i investigated ufo cases

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with a blue book officer sitting next to

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me

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so uh

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the point that i'm trying to say is that

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that the air force got into it got

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started with it they found out that they

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were starting to get some good reports

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certainly they didn't get every report

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because a lot of people don't trust

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reporting to the government about

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anything right so they they didn't

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report and a lot of people will never

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report i mean that's just the nature of

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the the problem because they don't want

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to be crazy or considered nuts or

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whatever like that so

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again

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they went to the air force the air force

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did their best with it hypothetically uh

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and they only looked at things that they

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got from the citizenry they weren't

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necessarily focused in on a lot of times

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the military well now you've got coming

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all this length of time later you

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suddenly don't have much engagement in

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the air force and you suddenly have the

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navy coming up and there were they were

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the lead to be able to get this whole

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thing going because they were seeing

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them all around their their carrier

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ships and and the water coming out you

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know and all this other stuff and so

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that

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now they take the lead

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uh and you got them now building the

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structure if you would

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uh and and and so that's what's happened

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is it's shifted over and then you have

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to also be fair to the the the uap task

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force they were they were not looking at

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the citizen cases they were looking at

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now the military cases right right so

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it's the exact opposite of what you had

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with the air force

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uh in the context of now getting these

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reports and looking at all that

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scientific data so i believe it's a lack

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of maturity they haven't got their

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processes in place

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they're still not connected to the full

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government you know and so consequently

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that's what you saw was the fact that

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well we can't address those questions we

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don't we haven't looked at those you

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know

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they talk about their cases there's talk

283
00:10:35,990 --> 00:10:33,440
about 144 cases that they looked and

284
00:10:37,829 --> 00:10:36,000
then they went up to 400. now it's a

285
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:37,839
shift over to the fact that they're

286
00:10:46,069 --> 00:10:43,430
does that help

287
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,079
yeah definitely

288
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:48,560
could i get it a chance here to voice my

289
00:10:53,829 --> 00:10:50,880
opinion on the uh on the hearing yes so

290
00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:53,839
yeah i i might i might be the only one

291
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:55,360
who's not as disappointed as everyone

292
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:57,519
but that's because i use the trick going

293
00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:59,200
into the hearings i use the same trick i

294
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:02,160
use after star wars episode one phantom

295
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:04,480
menace which enabled me to enjoy

296
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:06,640
episodes two and three is i kept my

297
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:09,120
expectations low expecting to be

298
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,000
disappointed and that's what enabled me

299
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:14,640
to look at the silver lining i think i

300
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:16,959
found a lot of silver linings actually

301
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:18,320
um

302
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:23,600
for example that the 2004 nimitz

303
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:26,160
encounter still unknown that's

304
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:28,079
really important because then that means

305
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:30,399
people like mick west are claiming to be

306
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,800
smarter than entire teams of military

307
00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:35,200
experts and he's got his video to video

308
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:36,880
like look it was a bug in the camera

309
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:39,680
this like the us military has admitted

310
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:40,959
it's still unknown to this day so i

311
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:42,720
thought that was a key moment

312
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:44,959
the other key moment was like usos oh we

313
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:47,760
can't can't talk about multi medium you

314
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:49,040
know where that's going to be the closed

315
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,240
session i'm like

316
00:11:55,750 --> 00:11:53,040
that is an important clue and that ties

317
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:55,760
in with why is the navy leading versus

318
00:12:00,550 --> 00:11:58,480
the air force that seems to go hand in

319
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:00,560
hand the navy is leading and somehow

320
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:02,880
water is connected i think that there

321
00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:05,279
were important hints and clues there

322
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:08,160
important silver linings um i am

323
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:10,399
very grateful to scu that actually a

324
00:12:14,949 --> 00:12:12,240
small frac a small number of the

325
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:14,959
questions submitted um were ones that i

326
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:16,720
i i had come up with i think i was at

327
00:12:20,790 --> 00:12:18,160
the right place at the right time on

328
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:20,800
email chains cause i'm on uapx but also

329
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:24,240
scu and um and some of them were

330
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:26,639
accidentally covered

331
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:28,720
not from us not from our document but

332
00:12:33,670 --> 00:12:31,920
the the the silos for example um the the

333
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:33,680
missile silos was it was a question i

334
00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:35,600
made sure we we got in there i was

335
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,839
really happy when the one congressman

336
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:39,360
pushed on that and he's like wait a

337
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:40,800
second you guys never heard of this how

338
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:42,079
can you have never heard of this that's

339
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,120
ridiculous

340
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,800
that was a good moment that was a

341
00:12:49,190 --> 00:12:46,800
positive moment rich is right that it's

342
00:12:50,949 --> 00:12:49,200
embarrassing that they wouldn't know but

343
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,959
i'm looking at the positive i'm trying

344
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:52,880
to focus on the positive the fact that

345
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,120
it got brought up at all

346
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:57,519
and that the congressman hounded them on

347
00:13:01,750 --> 00:12:59,680
and be like how can you guys not know

348
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:01,760
this oh no one in authority told us well

349
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:03,200
i'm an authority i'm telling you to

350
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:05,600
check this out i think that that wasn't

351
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,920
that was that was that's really good

352
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:09,440
that that was being hounded and that the

353
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:11,440
multi-medium that was the other one did

354
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:13,360
get brought up even though then it was

355
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:15,440
like shunted to like oh we'll talk about

356
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:17,440
that in the closed session so there's

357
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,320
certainly there's a lot to be

358
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,320
disappointed about i don't have the the

359
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,399
the 15 50 years of history as rich so i

360
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:24,399
understand that it's very easy to get

361
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:25,279
like

362
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:26,800
um

363
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:28,560
don't take this the wrong way rich

364
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,320
you know it's easy to get cynical or

365
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,639
jaded but i think i'm young i i'm not

366
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,800
i'm not at that point yet so i actually

367
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:36,399
wasn't that disappointed with the

368
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,680
hearing i was actually surprised by the

369
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:41,760
number of admissions that of things that

370
00:13:44,870 --> 00:13:43,440
like yeah we don't know there are things

371
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:44,880
we still don't know

372
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,519
and and this and that so so yes

373
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,360
my take on it was actually more positive

374
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:51,360
than anyone else i've talked to so far

375
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:53,040
in the community

376
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:55,120
i agree with you a bit there sorry i i

377
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:56,560
agree with you a bit there because i was

378
00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:59,360
ex i tempered my expectations but i was

379
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:00,639
surprised to not hear the word

380
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:02,800
transmedium mentioned once

381
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:04,240
or something about space-based

382
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:07,600
geospatial systems or or underwater i i

383
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:10,320
i can understand that deep conversations

384
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:11,760
on it have to be have behind closed

385
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,639
doors in the classified area but i was

386
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:16,240
just it baffled me that i didn't hear

387
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:17,839
that word once

388
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:18,560
i think

389
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:21,360
you're underwater at least

390
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,399
i do

391
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,720
again yeah i agree with you matt i think

392
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,240
that there was like you know there were

393
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:28,959
definitely positive moments in it i

394
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:30,079
thought that it was interesting that

395
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:31,440
while you had the one guy that was

396
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:33,120
talking the congressman that was talking

397
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:34,639
and bringing up the fact that he knew

398
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:36,079
about the nukes and he knew about

399
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,680
everything then you had this other

400
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:39,199
congressman that's over there sitting in

401
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,880
saying well we should go after ufo

402
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:43,199
groups and we should basically you know

403
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:45,519
uh you know go after them and find them

404
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:46,959
or you know put them in jail or

405
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:48,320
something like that because they might

406
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,560
be misleading information you know and

407
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:52,800
i'm thinking like you know wow that's

408
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:55,120
that's a great you know great idea let's

409
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,959
just go that's the scary part yeah

410
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:58,560
whatever whatever happened to the first

411
00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:00,000
amendment right this was still a free

412
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:01,680
country exactly

413
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:04,000
that definitely was a scary moment which

414
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:05,920
yeah yeah you're absolutely right i know

415
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:06,800
yeah

416
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:10,399
you know coming back to the point where

417
00:15:13,829 --> 00:15:12,000
like you know yeah i've been in it for a

418
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:13,839
long time i would love to be able to see

419
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,000
a really right uh an appropriate

420
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:18,079
congressional hearing

421
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,079
even with potentially having witnesses

422
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:22,000
and things like that like ryan graves or

423
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:23,839
something like that even talking to the

424
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:25,760
general public right and that that

425
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:27,440
wasn't part of that this was these were

426
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:29,440
two people that were leading a program

427
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:30,959
that were doing nothing more than just

428
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:33,199
you know answering what they maybe like

429
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:34,480
roughly knew

430
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:36,639
uh and you didn't get a really proper

431
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:40,320
perspective on the overall ufo or uap

432
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:41,519
equation

433
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,720
and you know i think that that would

434
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:45,199
have been more dynamic for the public

435
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,040
uh you know to have had and so

436
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:51,440
go ahead where was kevin dave

437
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:53,199
where's kevin dave where was gary verys

438
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,279
where was where was his name

439
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:57,519
where was alex dietrich like right

440
00:16:01,990 --> 00:15:59,680
where's ryan graves where are the actual

441
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:02,000
witnesses yeah shouldn't they be before

442
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,199
congress yeah

443
00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:05,440
that that's why my disappointment was

444
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:07,120
there i mean you know i mean i've been

445
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:09,680
waiting a long time to hear something of

446
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:12,079
50 years right from when we had the last

447
00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:14,880
one right that my expectations were that

448
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:17,759
it was not that significant i would be i

449
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:18,720
i'm sure that there was going to be

450
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:20,560
problems but i thought a little bit more

451
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:22,880
would have been helpful and i just it

452
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:24,639
didn't happen you know

453
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:27,040
so anyway that that was why but yeah

454
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,320
you're right there's there's silver

455
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,160
linings in the fact that we're just even

456
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:32,480
having this conversation

457
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,959
you know yeah

458
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:36,480
now towards the end of last year when

459
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,240
the uh the gillibrand amendment first

460
00:16:41,509 --> 00:16:40,720
came up it had wording in there that

461
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:41,519
would

462
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:45,759
private scientific organizations but

463
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:47,519
that didn't really make it through to

464
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,360
the ndaa 2022 do you think that there's

465
00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:53,360
over classification or over secrecy

466
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,440
that's stopping the scientific community

467
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,360
from being able to work with the

468
00:17:02,069 --> 00:16:59,680
information and data

469
00:17:03,990 --> 00:17:02,079
uh yes i mean

470
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:04,000
to be honest with you you heard very

471
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:05,760
loud and clear about the fact that it's

472
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:09,520
sources uh tactics and and and you know

473
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:10,559
the type of

474
00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:14,559
they're using so they don't want to let

475
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:16,839
on necessarily and share that type of

476
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,799
information but let me put it through

477
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,240
this way

478
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:22,559
you don't have to have that you can you

479
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:25,360
can get rid of the edit videos you can

480
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,760
edit this or that and you can still pass

481
00:17:31,350 --> 00:17:29,520
those out to the scientific community

482
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,360
and have it do it like we they did well

483
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:33,200
like we did with the nimitz you know we

484
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:36,480
put a 277 page paper together on that

485
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:39,280
study you know knuth was a part of that

486
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:41,039
and and robert powell and a whole bunch

487
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:42,000
of others

488
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:44,400
and it was actually taken up to the hill

489
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:46,160
you know we got word that it was passed

490
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:48,960
up so you can include you know the the

491
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:50,720
people if you're just willing to like

492
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:52,480
edit the video take out maybe some of

493
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:55,039
the sensitive information and have

494
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:58,080
them or scientists analyze that right

495
00:18:03,029 --> 00:18:01,679
and come up with a legitimate report so

496
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:03,039
i hope that they can do that and they

497
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,480
can come to grips with that at some

498
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:06,400
point i mean i think it comes down to

499
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,880
intent as well and how much they want us

500
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,039
to know at any given time how much it

501
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,440
because it can't just all be about

502
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,600
things that are intelligence risks or

503
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:17,440
they put us at risk with other nations i

504
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:19,760
mean it seems just just looking at the

505
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,000
draconian history of the way they've

506
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:23,919
treated the public the scientists

507
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,760
everybody involved in researching this

508
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:27,120
over the last

509
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:29,280
70 plus years i mean it's always been

510
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:31,200
here's a little tidbit to snack on and

511
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,760
then they rip everything away so

512
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:35,200
it seems like yeah things are different

513
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,440
things are better things are changing

514
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:39,280
but i don't think you're just gonna get

515
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:42,400
rid of that long history of of

516
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:44,480
just leaking out what little bits they

517
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:45,840
want to i think that's always going to

518
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,799
be there

519
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:48,480
i will point out that you know i am a

520
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:50,720
defense contractor i'm contracted to

521
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:52,880
work with army material command and you

522
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:53,679
know

523
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:55,120
the other thing that i'll bring up is

524
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,400
the fact that there's a there's a

525
00:19:01,029 --> 00:18:58,320
tremendous industry out there that they

526
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,039
can also rely on they have their own we

527
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:03,280
have our own military labs with

528
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:05,919
scientists and everything else so i mean

529
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,440
you know to be fair

530
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:09,360
they don't necessarily have to come out

531
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:11,360
to the general public

532
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,080
uh they've got a tremendous military you

533
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,799
know uh group of scientists and people

534
00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:18,640
like that that they can go within the

535
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:22,000
organization that do have you know

536
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:23,760
you know that can seek classified yeah

537
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:25,360
that's kind of anti-science though

538
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,960
because it's it's about doing the

539
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,640
research and then publishing getting it

540
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,240
out there having other people look at

541
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:31,919
your data looking at your results and

542
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:33,919
then trying to repeat it get the same

543
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:36,480
thing so yeah i mean i understand the

544
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:38,080
reasons behind it when you interject

545
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:40,240
intelligence that innately means only

546
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:42,559
some things can be known but

547
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:44,799
i don't know it's it flies in the face

548
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:45,760
of science they have their own

549
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,520
scientists but the scientific community

550
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:49,200
as a whole is being left out of the

551
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:51,120
conversation

552
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:53,919
you're absolutely right i think it's uh

553
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:56,080
and that's what creates this like

554
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:57,600
huge chasm

555
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,480
between the two worlds if you would the

556
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:02,400
n class and that and so if they are

557
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:04,480
going to try and balance transparency

558
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:05,760
they they say that they're going to try

559
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:07,600
to do transparency

560
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:10,960
a suggestion would be to also allow the

561
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:13,039
other people the scientists out there to

562
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,280
be able to do something with it and

563
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:17,200
actually be able to publish it and you

564
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,880
know let's look at the phenomena it's

565
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,480
it's out there right yeah i want to

566
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:22,640
bring up something that that relevant

567
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,159
here that kevin would say if he were

568
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,240
here which is this is the issue here is

569
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:28,960
the is the is that there's the tautology

570
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:30,880
that it can't be broken because of all

571
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,240
this classified data that's the

572
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:34,400
tautology of scientists are not allowed

573
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,720
to look at ufos why not because there

574
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:38,559
are no published papers why are there no

575
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:39,600
published papers because you're not

576
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:41,280
allowed to look at it it's not so it's

577
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:43,200
circular we're never going to break out

578
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:45,919
of that circle until you have some brave

579
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,640
journals and editors that do allow

580
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,480
rigorous work but how's that even going

581
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:52,480
to start if the juiciest data is still

582
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:54,799
classified right and we just get the the

583
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:57,600
lowest quality stuff i i so that's why i

584
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,960
think you know citizen science is going

585
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:01,120
to be the way to push this is is to use

586
00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:02,480
modern technology

587
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:04,240
use use the fact that cameras have

588
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:06,640
gotten so good right the camera in my

589
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:09,280
pocket right now and my iphone 13 is

590
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:11,840
like better than you know by orders of

591
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,320
magnitude what existed in like the 1960s

592
00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:16,559
like with the space program so i think

593
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,320
what we need to push citizen science

594
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:20,960
forward to get data so good that it's

595
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,960
the same quality the government has

596
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,400
because you know civilian sector will be

597
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,480
behind technologically depending you

598
00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:28,640
know on on the type of technology by 20

599
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:31,520
30 years but that means we are right now

600
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,320
with our our our cameras and our tech

601
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:36,799
that we have access to as non-government

602
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,799
people is just as good as what they had

603
00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:40,559
decades ago roughly very roughly

604
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:41,919
speaking

605
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,360
do you think that would force the hand

606
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:45,200
of the government to say we don't want

607
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:46,559
to be left behind

608
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:48,000
oh yes absolutely i think that's the

609
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:50,000
only way to do it is to come out and

610
00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:52,159
that was our also part of our mission on

611
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:55,039
uapx is to try to collect eventually

612
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:56,799
they i'm not saying we have a smoking

613
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,080
gun yet or anything but we're getting

614
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:00,320
there but to get data that's so good

615
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:02,159
that the government's like well crap now

616
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,240
they've got equal or better you know

617
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:06,640
data than we have and so now there's no

618
00:22:10,710 --> 00:22:09,520
longer any point to classifying um a lot

619
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:10,720
of it

620
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:12,720
you're spot on yeah that's that's right

621
00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:13,679
i mean

622
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:15,679
with the with the equipment you all had

623
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:18,400
and the the advance of technology and

624
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:19,600
tools that we could get and the

625
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:21,440
affordability of it

626
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:24,240
it now lends itself to being able to

627
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:26,000
have those types of things out there

628
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:27,360
where you will just collect it on our

629
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,480
own you know

630
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,640
um and you know and we'll do our own

631
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:32,559
analysis and and i think that that's

632
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:34,400
very doable

633
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:35,679
exactly yeah

634
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:37,120
now matthew you obviously featured

635
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:39,120
recently in the documentary of tear in

636
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:41,039
the sky but i think for a lot of people

637
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,280
in the ufo community as researchers they

638
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:45,360
are really looking forward to the data

639
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:46,240
and

640
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:52,000
presented at the uh the se conference um

641
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:53,280
that's correct soon is there anything

642
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:54,799
you can tell us about the process and

643
00:22:59,430 --> 00:22:57,280
how it's been going relating to that

644
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,440
that area of the investigation

645
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:02,000
yes absolutely so thank you we for our

646
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:03,039
most

647
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:04,640
interesting potentially interesting

648
00:23:07,110 --> 00:23:06,240
events we talked to

649
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:07,120
um

650
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:09,280
camera experts already atmospheric

651
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:12,320
science experts to look for

652
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:15,440
and rule in or rule out any mundane or

653
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:18,240
prosaic explanations basically make mick

654
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:20,080
west redundant people like him just do

655
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,960
the self skepticism ourselves and and so

656
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:24,960
that if something really is weird it

657
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:27,840
really is weird because we double check

658
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,799
triple check and try to be our own worst

659
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:32,960
critics unfortunately there's always

660
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,960
some some some bias if it's just

661
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:36,880
internal and that's why as we said

662
00:23:41,269 --> 00:23:39,760
already we we are going to seek

663
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,279
open-minded

664
00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:43,360
journals and editors because science is

665
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:46,799
not complete without external unbiased

666
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:48,640
peer review because we could triple

667
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:50,480
quadruple check everything but there's

668
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,320
still be things that we haven't thought

669
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:55,120
of yet that does show something we

670
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:56,799
caught that we thought was anomalous

671
00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:58,960
interesting really does have a prozac

672
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:01,440
explanation so we've already if you've

673
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:04,000
watched the youtube roundtable um on

674
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,000
jeremy mcgowan's channel after the movie

675
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:08,080
you'll see we've already knocked out a

676
00:24:11,909 --> 00:24:09,520
couple things that are in the movie

677
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:11,919
we're like ah well that turns out to

678
00:24:15,669 --> 00:24:13,600
have a boring explanation that wasn't

679
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:15,679
weird and so we're trying to knock

680
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:18,640
things out like that to really whittle

681
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:20,880
it down to what

682
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:22,320
was truly

683
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,679
anomalous and doesn't allow for an easy

684
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:27,919
simple explanation so really i'm i'm

685
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:30,159
hoping that gives you a glimpse into our

686
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:31,279
process

687
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:33,120
yeah absolutely i'm really looking

688
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:34,159
forward to

689
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:35,440
to seeing that what comes with the

690
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,360
conference um so let's discuss the

691
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,880
conference rich can you give us kind of

692
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:40,559
the because i know that is is it in

693
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:43,039
collaboration with the aiaa

694
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:46,320
um or ryan graves is well well ryan is

695
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:47,679
of course is with him and we have a

696
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:50,320
number of scu people uh even kevin uh

697
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:53,679
kevin is a part of i believe that that

698
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:55,360
community of interest i mean he

699
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:58,000
presented uh but ryan is and then we

700
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:01,200
also have uh peter reali as on i believe

701
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:03,679
working with them as well so we are

702
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:06,559
connected with them uh we're not

703
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:09,279
partnered with them

704
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:12,240
we are just members of of of that

705
00:25:15,269 --> 00:25:13,679
community of interest that he's going to

706
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,279
be responsible for

707
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,120
uh i hope i'm looking forward to being

708
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,440
able to have the conversation with ryan

709
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:21,840
and uh you know at the conference to see

710
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,279
if there's anything that we can do to

711
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:24,960
help more i guess or something of that

712
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,760
nature uh but anyway uh yeah the

713
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:30,000
conference is coming up uh in a little

714
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:31,679
bit less than two weeks in fact it was

715
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:33,840
yesterday we were two weeks out from

716
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:34,880
having it

717
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:38,080
um and it's i'm very excited about it i

718
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:40,159
i know that you know uh michael

719
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:42,000
presented a

720
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,679
presented last year we had a virtual

721
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:46,159
conference uh and they did a fabulous

722
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:48,640
job it was an excellent conference uh

723
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,240
this year i'm taking on a bigger

724
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:51,840
challenge

725
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:53,520
the first year we did it was in person

726
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:55,679
the second time we did it was like all

727
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,200
you know because of cobit we were all

728
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:59,520
virtual and now it's a hybrid so i'm

729
00:26:04,630 --> 00:26:01,600
going to be balancing between hybrid

730
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,640
world you know and and virtual world and

731
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,480
so i continue to make it more

732
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:08,880
challenging to myself i must be uh crazy

733
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:10,400
but anyway

734
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,520
the one last year was great i thought it

735
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,440
went off without a hitch so

736
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:17,279
you've got the digital side unlock at

737
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,159
least

738
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,919
yeah i think that you know we're using

739
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:21,840
the same tool michael so i think it's

740
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:23,520
gonna be you know again it's like you

741
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,400
know

742
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:26,159
everybody loved that so the virtual

743
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,840
world it's not just you know just

744
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,600
watching a zoom conference or something

745
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:31,279
like that it's got a lot more to it you

746
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:32,640
know

747
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:37,440
got i actually i only have three seats

748
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:40,080
left because i'm so you know i've got

749
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,320
i'm excited we have a limited capacity

750
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:44,080
in the place i've worked out some

751
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,799
incredibly fabulous meals for it uh you

752
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:48,559
know and suddenly we're getting a lot of

753
00:26:51,750 --> 00:26:50,240
interest from

754
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,760
different media types that also want to

755
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:53,760
come in and so i've got a little

756
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:56,159
separate room over there and another uh

757
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:59,120
nearby uh room that we can have media

758
00:27:02,789 --> 00:27:00,960
interviews and stuff like that but

759
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,799
anyway it's turning out to be great i'm

760
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:04,720
i'm excited that the the number of the

761
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,080
people we have uh are fabulous i mean

762
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:10,320
matt uh matt's gonna be in you know dr

763
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:13,200
knuth we got alexander wendt we have uh

764
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:15,039
uh we have john alexander that's gonna

765
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,279
be presenting we have a whole host of

766
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,200
people we're gonna be discussing about

767
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:21,120
the national security implications and

768
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:22,799
working with science and how do you do

769
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:23,600
that

770
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:25,120
uh we're going to be talking about the

771
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,279
su projects that we've got going on

772
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:29,360
which include a nuke study that we're

773
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:30,880
going to be talking about

774
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:33,360
uh yeah and so there's there's a lot of

775
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:34,559
good stuff that's going to be there we

776
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:37,200
got three panels and anyway it's it's a

777
00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:39,120
great thing you all if you can join

778
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:40,480
virtually because i'm going to be

779
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:42,000
probably just about shutting off the

780
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,240
in-person ticket but it's virtual as

781
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:47,120
well so uh join in and you can find us

782
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:49,440
at explorescu.org

783
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,880
and there's a link there that will take

784
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,320
you over to it

785
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,240
thank you fantastic i know thank you i

786
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:56,799
think it's a very exciting time and but

787
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:57,760
do you hope that there'll be

788
00:28:02,310 --> 00:27:59,760
conversations had at the conference that

789
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:02,320
afterwards will lead to new directions

790
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:04,960
for collaborations and projects and

791
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:07,200
things like that so it's not just uh

792
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:09,279
people speaking there is there is stuff

793
00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:10,720
happening as well yeah

794
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,399
there's i mean i've already got like a

795
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:14,559
number of topics to work with matt on

796
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:16,880
about it you know we're talking about a

797
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:18,640
whole host of things you know we we need

798
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:20,480
to compare notes because actually you

799
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:21,120
know

800
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:23,840
we're partnered with uapx and of course

801
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:25,840
matthew is a part of both organizations

802
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,159
uh but i mean ultimately to see how we

803
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,640
can help with that data that they have

804
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,320
if there's a way for us to help out

805
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:34,480
we're even on the help out on the peer

806
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:36,559
review type of aspects there's a whole

807
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:38,159
host of ways we can do that and so we're

808
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,600
gonna have a conversation at the

809
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:41,919
conference about that

810
00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:43,840
uh yeah it's gonna be great because yeah

811
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:45,919
we're we're so as richard said where

812
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:48,000
uapx is liaising

813
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:49,679
liaisoning i know the proper way to make

814
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:52,720
that verb with scu because we have so

815
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:55,760
much data and such a vast amount of data

816
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,399
we all the uh ambiguities or anomalies

817
00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:00,159
you talk about was from like less than

818
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:01,919
one percent of the data we have hundreds

819
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:04,960
of hours especially a flare of infrared

820
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:07,840
imagery and we need people to go go

821
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,320
through that and so scu is going to help

822
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:12,720
us classify things you know that's a

823
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:14,960
bird that's an airplane and and help

824
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,880
narrow down to like oh they're this this

825
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,559
object is not an airplane it doesn't

826
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:20,960
match you know okay so this we really

827
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:24,080
look forward to to working with um a uap

828
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:25,520
x really looks forward looking working

829
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,919
with scu to get through this giant

830
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,840
amount of data we have from just our one

831
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,000
week-long expedition

832
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:33,919
excellent yeah that's fantastic i think

833
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:36,320
it's it was really great when i think

834
00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:37,679
you know towards the end of last year

835
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:39,279
people were really focusing on on the

836
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,279
scientific organizations to really come

837
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:43,279
through and it seems that it's happening

838
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,039
you know big time at the moment with

839
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:47,200
with yourself rich in the scu and and

840
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:49,760
uapx and also the galileo project do

841
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,279
either of your groups

842
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:53,039
speak or collaborate in any way with

843
00:29:59,029 --> 00:29:56,000
with avi loeb and his team

844
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:59,039
uh we we i'll speak from the seo side we

845
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,720
do have people that are attending the

846
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,360
meetings uh we also you know like i

847
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:05,200
think robert powell or some others or

848
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:07,840
possibly uh they're listed as being

849
00:30:12,149 --> 00:30:09,919
affiliates or there's research

850
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:12,159
affiliates or some sort of like ta way

851
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:14,399
of doing that but but we are uh we are

852
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:16,080
attending meetings and trying to provide

853
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:18,320
input where where it's you know accepted

854
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:20,720
and stuff like that uh they they seem to

855
00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:22,720
be wanting to though pretty much stay

856
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,640
within their own community in the

857
00:30:28,870 --> 00:30:26,399
context of

858
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:28,880
uh you know truly wanting

859
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,200
scientists uh that are out there that

860
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,200
avi maybe knows or something like that

861
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:35,120
that he's and he's trying to stay away

862
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:37,360
from also the the maybe any anybody

863
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:38,880
that's connected with ufos believe it or

864
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,600
not uh but it's pretty much you know

865
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:43,760
trying to be uh as objective and

866
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:46,159
scientific as he possibly can

867
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,919
and i understand that you know i mean he

868
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:49,440
doesn't want to bring in you know the

869
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:51,039
woo-woo groups or anything of that

870
00:30:54,389 --> 00:30:53,120
nature which might want to be able to be

871
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,399
in that but

872
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:56,240
anyway it's it's a good relationship and

873
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,559
we are trying to help out

874
00:31:01,350 --> 00:31:00,000
that's great to hear

875
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:01,360
um i'm not sure what's happening with

876
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,360
michael uh mike if you can hear us it

877
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,960
might be easy just to leave and jump

878
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:06,240
back in again

879
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:08,480
um so matthew what about yourselves and

880
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:10,799
you apx are you uh having conversations

881
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:13,450
or any work with with professor loeb

882
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:14,720
[Music]

883
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:15,919
um

884
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,440
well it's a bit difficult like rich said

885
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:19,360
they really want to forge

886
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:21,679
avi really wants to forge his own path

887
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:24,880
um so we we take we we want to we have a

888
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:26,480
different approach though on new apx as

889
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:29,120
we just said liaisoning scu um the

890
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,600
philosophy on that that i've told rich

891
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,360
in the past my own personal philosophy

892
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:36,080
is we have way too many groups um

893
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:37,679
there's like an alphabet soup of

894
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:40,159
acronyms right we've got like gp and

895
00:31:47,509 --> 00:31:43,440
uapx and scu and kufos and mufon and

896
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:47,519
skyhub and tg2p and all this i i i

897
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,120
envision that i hope someday we can

898
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,000
consolidate to a much smaller number of

899
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:54,720
groups and pool our resources pool our

900
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:57,600
resources together because i think that

901
00:32:00,310 --> 00:31:58,399
um

902
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,320
it it that that's the best way to make

903
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:02,720
progress because i worry that sometimes

904
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:04,480
we all have different pieces of the

905
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:06,640
puzzle but if we don't play with the

906
00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:09,120
other people and bring our puzzle pieces

907
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:11,120
and put them on the table then we're

908
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,240
really going to have a tough time

909
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,159
making progress i think it's extremely

910
00:32:20,950 --> 00:32:18,799
important um to collaborate and and work

911
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,960
together i'd like to make a point on

912
00:32:25,669 --> 00:32:22,720
that because i think that when we

913
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:25,679
initially formed uh scu we saw this as a

914
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:26,960
coalition

915
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:32,960
matter whether you're a part of any

916
00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:34,399
other group

917
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:35,679
it it's about the fact that we're

918
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:37,440
getting together and having a discussion

919
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:38,559
together

920
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,600
and that's new that's where and it's all

921
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:43,679
disciplines and all views should be

922
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:46,720
brought together right so i mean uh you

923
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,640
know it's not like we have any answers

924
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,799
to this whether it be you know

925
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:52,640
extraterrestrial source or whether it be

926
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:54,080
time travel or whether it be any

927
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:56,320
anything else which nobody knows right

928
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,080
so let's all have a com you know a

929
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,240
combined discussion about this and see

930
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:02,960
if we can you know use our coalition to

931
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:05,440
be able to help have those conversations

932
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,039
communicate with each other bump into

933
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,960
each other and have scientists get you

934
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,720
know researchers and stuff like that

935
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,559
talk about what they've done so that's

936
00:33:16,149 --> 00:33:14,640
that's where we're trying to be we're

937
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:16,159
i i don't care whether you're a part of

938
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:18,159
another organization

939
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,600
that's if you want to do that that's

940
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:21,600
great but

941
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:23,440
let's

942
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:24,799
i agree with matt i think that's

943
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:27,519
important um do you see the seo as being

944
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,279
that like the place where everyone can

945
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:31,519
come together because i feel it's it's

946
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:34,159
definitely already doing that uh and it

947
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:36,799
still has room to grow

948
00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:39,200
yeah absolutely that's why um

949
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:41,120
i'm i'm still a member scum that was

950
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:43,760
doing uapx because they serve different

951
00:33:49,029 --> 00:33:47,200
purposes and i i do i do wish galileo

952
00:33:51,509 --> 00:33:49,039
project was at the scu conference

953
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:51,519
because um see that the thing is we do

954
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,679
need to we do need to talk to each other

955
00:33:57,029 --> 00:33:56,159
and scu really is this wonderful

956
00:34:02,950 --> 00:33:57,039
um

957
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,960
individuals and groups together

958
00:34:06,389 --> 00:34:04,720
i'm thrilled the fact that we have like

959
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:06,399
people from japan

960
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:09,200
that are coming we have people that are

961
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:11,040
part of

962
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:13,359
the isa you know the european space

963
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:15,359
agency that are coming or are going to

964
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:18,480
be attending and so i mean again we're

965
00:34:21,750 --> 00:34:19,919
starting to see that there's a footprint

966
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:21,760
of a whole variety of disciplines and

967
00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:24,320
organizations and people that are that

968
00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:25,760
are treating it seriously that are

969
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:27,280
actually now wanting to come together

970
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:28,399
and i'm going to be attending this

971
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:29,679
meeting by the way

972
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:31,839
i'm the attendants we're getting i think

973
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,720
when you look at the actual probably

974
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:36,240
their capabilities and the types of

975
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:37,679
things that they bring to the table it's

976
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:39,280
it's very exciting

977
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:41,599
uh so it's happening

978
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:43,280
yeah it's very refreshing to hear the

979
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:45,119
all the collaborative efforts coming

980
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:46,960
together and not being competitive with

981
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:49,359
each other and then especially with

982
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:51,280
overseas organizations as well that's

983
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:53,839
that's absolutely fantastic now when you

984
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:55,520
do have these conversations as

985
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,359
scientists and and you're talking about

986
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,599
the data that's been collected

987
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:01,200
does it ever get to that point where the

988
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:03,599
conversations become speculative and you

989
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,680
go back over maybe what these things

990
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:07,760
could possibly be you know does that

991
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:10,480
conversation still happen of course

992
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:11,680
yeah absolutely

993
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:13,440
michael and i are always we'll go back

994
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:15,680
and forth on because time travel is one

995
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,440
of my favorite topics i'll be like wow

996
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:19,440
you know it's almost impossible to be

997
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,599
really hard so now we of course we have

998
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:23,280
the do we these fun speculative

999
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,280
conversations and that's part of what

1000
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:27,200
makes the this conference that rich

1001
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:29,599
always works so hard on annually uh

1002
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,200
putting together with with it with the

1003
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:33,599
board i see what was so wonderful is

1004
00:35:38,950 --> 00:35:36,560
it's a safe space where you can also

1005
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:38,960
exchange some of the speculative ideas

1006
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:41,920
without be without fear of being labeled

1007
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:45,200
uh crazy so that's absolutely part of it

1008
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:46,560
yeah i think it's also important to

1009
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:48,560
point out though that that it's not just

1010
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:51,119
to say what these things are who they

1011
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:52,240
are where they're coming from when

1012
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,599
they're coming from it is innately

1013
00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:55,359
speculative and we have to be careful

1014
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:57,440
using that word because we can make

1015
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:59,200
observations of what these things are

1016
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,960
doing we can look at their flight

1017
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:02,720
characteristics we can look at the blue

1018
00:36:06,550 --> 00:36:04,720
shift how put off talked about this a

1019
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,560
lot in last year's conference where he's

1020
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,760
talking about

1021
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,680
how they can they can

1022
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:11,280
blue shift light they can speed up and

1023
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:12,720
slow down time they have these

1024
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:14,720
characteristics that we can observe and

1025
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,880
and make logical inferences about why

1026
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:18,240
they're doing that what they're doing

1027
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:19,839
how they're doing it and use that

1028
00:36:25,030 --> 00:36:22,320
observational data to make informed

1029
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:25,040
guesses about other aspects of the

1030
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,520
origin so so i think we we still need to

1031
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:29,040
connect the dots especially if they are

1032
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,760
from time we're not just making

1033
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:33,920
speculative guesses about when they come

1034
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:35,599
from or how they're traveling through

1035
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,720
time but we're observing the

1036
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:38,400
characteristics of these craft and the

1037
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:41,119
beans and then using that to

1038
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,720
what i try to use as an abductive

1039
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,560
approach find logic to the best

1040
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:46,240
inference the best on way of

1041
00:36:48,550 --> 00:36:47,359
understanding with the fewest

1042
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,560
assumptions

1043
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:50,880
um and and yeah there are ways to

1044
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:52,079
speculate and things that are

1045
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:54,800
speculative but i think we need to be

1046
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:57,040
careful in saying when we start talking

1047
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:59,119
about their origins it's not innately

1048
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:00,800
speculative it doesn't mean we're

1049
00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:03,040
speculating we can still

1050
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:04,880
uh garner information from what's

1051
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:06,800
observed in an observational study

1052
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:09,119
context it's not the same type of data

1053
00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:10,960
that we get from one observer going out

1054
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:13,440
and seeing like sitting

1055
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:15,440
and watching and in the house and that

1056
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:17,680
house than that house so it's that it's

1057
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,119
a different type of evidence than what

1058
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:21,119
we're used to but it's it's still

1059
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:23,119
eyewitness testimony and we should take

1060
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:25,119
those seriously as well i mean it's not

1061
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:26,800
just the cockpit videos anymore we got

1062
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:28,880
to look at the whole phenomenon

1063
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,640
i agree with michael that you know

1064
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:32,640
speculative doesn't necessarily mean

1065
00:37:37,230 --> 00:37:35,280
untestable as a scientist i think all

1066
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:37,240
these hypotheses are testable

1067
00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:39,119
extraterrestrial time travel doesn't

1068
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:41,680
matter they all make predictions on the

1069
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:45,359
properties of the objects etc and and

1070
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:47,200
not perfectly of course this is

1071
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:49,359
difficult because reproducibility is

1072
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:51,359
hard right you got to be lucky right

1073
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:52,720
this isn't something you can do in the

1074
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:56,000
lab it's an observational a science um

1075
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:58,640
just astronomy and cosmology where like

1076
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:00,880
you only have one universe to study and

1077
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:03,280
so similarly you have to get lucky but i

1078
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:05,440
do think you can you can while being

1079
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:08,400
speculative you can still tether your

1080
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:10,880
speculation to particular hypotheses

1081
00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:12,720
that you can try to prove or disprove so

1082
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,320
i absolutely agree with michael in fact

1083
00:38:17,910 --> 00:38:16,079
his mentioning of the blue shift that's

1084
00:38:20,069 --> 00:38:17,920
one of the reasons why we brought some

1085
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,079
of the equipment we did on uapx and it

1086
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:22,240
really helped us hit the jackpot to find

1087
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:24,720
strange anomalies because we listened we

1088
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,400
listened at the last scu conference

1089
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:29,040
which was as rich said online fully due

1090
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:31,520
to the pandemic but we listened to hal

1091
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,680
put off eric davis we listened to

1092
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,440
michael we listened to others and we got

1093
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:37,280
ideas okay we're going to bring such and

1094
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:39,040
such equipment we're going to do it this

1095
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:41,119
way because this is how we can test

1096
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:44,560
these ideas so we've already had the um

1097
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:46,160
the discussions at the seou conferences

1098
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:49,040
have borne incredible fruit already by

1099
00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:51,520
pointing us the direction to go and what

1100
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,040
kind of data do we want to take that

1101
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:55,200
will increase that will go beyond as

1102
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:57,119
michael said go beyond eyewitness

1103
00:39:01,750 --> 00:38:59,920
testimony and camera images how can we

1104
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:01,760
do even better than that

1105
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:03,520
yeah absolutely and and you know it's

1106
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:04,800
funny because

1107
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:06,720
we we can't necessarily apply the same

1108
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:09,520
standards of evidence that we've used in

1109
00:39:14,710 --> 00:39:12,000
science for for decades and there's

1110
00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:14,720
like rich was saying too uh when when we

1111
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:15,760
come together we have these

1112
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:17,920
conversations and then things come out

1113
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,839
of that and you make networks you meet

1114
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:22,320
people you make new collaborative

1115
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:24,240
connections with people and

1116
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:26,320
and it's so different from the past

1117
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:28,160
because when people were trying to do

1118
00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:30,320
this before is the invisible college the

1119
00:39:33,510 --> 00:39:32,079
jacques vale it's jaylen heineck and

1120
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,520
they had to do it behind closed doors

1121
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:36,000
but now we can openly talk about this

1122
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:38,720
with each other and then

1123
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:41,680
not have to fear you know dream ridicule

1124
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:44,000
retribution from our institutions for

1125
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:45,839
the most part though there are there are

1126
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,040
exceptions

1127
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:49,839
um so it's it's an incredible time i

1128
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:50,880
think where we can have these

1129
00:39:54,670 --> 00:39:52,720
conversations openly and learn from each

1130
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:54,680
other especially coming together

1131
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,560
interdisciplinary i mean i think it's

1132
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:58,880
gonna take that we can't understand

1133
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:00,880
a complex and mysterious phenomenon like

1134
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:03,040
this from one scientific discipline or

1135
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:05,040
one viewpoint it's gonna take all of us

1136
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:07,040
just throwing everything in there like

1137
00:40:12,150 --> 00:40:08,720
matt said putting the puzzles on the

1138
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:12,160
table and seeing what fits together

1139
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:13,839
yeah and

1140
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:17,280
to uh michael's point as well uh the

1141
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,960
you know i mean it's not like you we all

1142
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:19,920
have to

1143
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,319
have the same opinion or even view on

1144
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:24,160
this just the fact that we're sharing it

1145
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:27,760
is is very important uh alexander wendt

1146
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:30,240
is going to be doing a uh presentation

1147
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:31,760
that would be

1148
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,520
maybe many people would probably say is

1149
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:35,359
a little bit counter to the typical

1150
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:36,960
thinking uh he's going to be talking

1151
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:39,119
about the fact that you know is actually

1152
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:41,200
contact real it's almost like the michio

1153
00:40:46,309 --> 00:40:43,680
kaku perspective where it's it's like

1154
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:46,319
you know it do we really want to let the

1155
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:48,720
people out there know that we're here

1156
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:50,720
do we expect them to be all friendly and

1157
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:52,079
like e.t

1158
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:54,319
you know do we really want that and so

1159
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,000
he's going to be talking about well is

1160
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:58,480
actually exploring ufos and and doing

1161
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:01,359
scientific study is that really a good

1162
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:03,119
thing for us

1163
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:04,800
and you know i

1164
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,880
so it's gonna be a different perspective

1165
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,640
and we need to hear that right to

1166
00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:10,640
balance our views balance our

1167
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:12,800
perspectives and so what we've tried to

1168
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,560
do with the present the present

1169
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,400
presenters we've had at conferences is

1170
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,880
try to get a mix of different views and

1171
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:20,560
have that come together so that we can

1172
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,800
all have a conversation about it and you

1173
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,240
know you know

1174
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:25,920
some you know

1175
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,319
matthew talked about you know dark dark

1176
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:30,240
energy and and how that that wow that

1177
00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:32,079
just opened up doors for me in terms of

1178
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,440
thinking like well that could be you

1179
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:34,880
know potentially how that they're using

1180
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:36,880
it right it's great let's go check into

1181
00:41:41,589 --> 00:41:39,520
that you know and and hearing about time

1182
00:41:43,750 --> 00:41:41,599
travel in the context of you know the

1183
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,760
study that michael masters has done

1184
00:41:47,829 --> 00:41:45,920
in the context of just looking at while

1185
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:47,839
the beings that are described

1186
00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:49,599
are bipedal they're they're very much

1187
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:51,839
like us to arms to you know all this

1188
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:53,920
other stuff wow that's an interesting

1189
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:56,400
perspective like you know are they human

1190
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:58,240
you know and so you start to have those

1191
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,960
kind of like perspectives that that you

1192
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,560
maybe you want to go off on and think

1193
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:04,720
about yeah and a little bit differently

1194
00:42:06,790 --> 00:42:05,440
right

1195
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:06,800
and of course we

1196
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:09,760
so it's good i think it's important also

1197
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,319
um i have to stress that and my

1198
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,400
colleague kevin who just wrote

1199
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,560
um a medium essay about this that's

1200
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:18,400
getting a lot of reads is that is

1201
00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:21,520
humility is so important i think you

1202
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,720
like you said rich different

1203
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:24,400
perspectives i think we have to let the

1204
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,960
truth and facts speak for themselves i

1205
00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:29,359
don't care if it's extraterrestrials i

1206
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:31,280
don't care if michael's right and time

1207
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,880
travels for the future that'd be great

1208
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:34,400
because then that means that probably

1209
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:36,319
means we survived you know the nuclear

1210
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:37,760
war putin's about to start you know

1211
00:42:41,829 --> 00:42:40,720
that's good news and so like i i i as a

1212
00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:41,839
scientist

1213
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:45,040
i want to be proven wrong with my ideas

1214
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:48,000
because that keeps me honest and so i

1215
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:50,880
don't care if the vast majority are

1216
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,800
atmospheric phenomena and are not you

1217
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:54,720
know intelligent crap

1218
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:56,720
wherever the truth leads us wherever the

1219
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,960
facts lead us is what's important and

1220
00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:01,440
that's why and it's totally okay for

1221
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:03,280
everyone to have their favorite pet

1222
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:05,359
hypothesis extra dimensional

1223
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,200
interdimensional extra stress that's

1224
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:10,400
fine as long as we're not married to it

1225
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:13,520
when the facts say otherwise that's yeah

1226
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:15,359
and it's hard you see it in academia as

1227
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:17,440
well i mean in paleoanthropology

1228
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:19,359
especially there's so much

1229
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:22,160
debate and and infighting about whether

1230
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:24,079
this should be a new species or whether

1231
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:25,760
it's morphologically similar enough to

1232
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:27,040
these that we should group it in with

1233
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:28,960
those and we've been going at it for

1234
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:31,599
decades about these little nuances and

1235
00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:33,760
things and and you see dogma you see

1236
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:36,079
people adhering to this ideology that

1237
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:37,760
they embrace and they think is right no

1238
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:40,400
matter what i mean but i think the ufo

1239
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:42,319
community and especially in science it's

1240
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:44,880
more ripe for that same type of thing

1241
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:46,880
because there's so many unknowns it's

1242
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:49,280
easy to jump on something and look for

1243
00:43:53,990 --> 00:43:51,119
you know things that back it up

1244
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:54,000
confirmation by selection bias but i i

1245
00:44:00,069 --> 00:43:57,280
think as scientists if if we're really

1246
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:00,079
focused on learning what this is we need

1247
00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:03,040
to recognize any of those biases and get

1248
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:04,400
rid of those leave them at the door and

1249
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:06,319
just open our minds to whatever this

1250
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:08,560
might be

1251
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,839
yeah absolutely

1252
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:12,079
the technology advances that we're going

1253
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,200
through our guy i think are going to

1254
00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:14,800
help us because that's going to give us

1255
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:16,960
some other you know and we've just so

1256
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:19,040
badly needed that i go back to my early

1257
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:21,599
days uh even with the project blue book

1258
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:24,000
you know and all that whole time period

1259
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:25,280
you know i didn't even have something

1260
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:26,800
like a tape recorder that i could go out

1261
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,319
with at that time that was before that

1262
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:29,920
you know i was going out i was going out

1263
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:31,839
and investigating cases where people i

1264
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:33,760
had to hand them a piece of paper and

1265
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:35,680
and you know colored crayon or something

1266
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:38,160
like that and say draw your picture of

1267
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:40,960
what you saw right you know i mean

1268
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,200
that's the kind of tools that i had back

1269
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:45,599
when i was doing investigations right

1270
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:47,280
and you think about that in the context

1271
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:49,359
of well did the air force maybe have

1272
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:51,040
that because they sent out investigators

1273
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,480
like me that were sitting there doing

1274
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:54,480
the same thing and then maybe had a form

1275
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:55,839
and that's all they did they filled it

1276
00:44:58,870 --> 00:44:56,560
out

1277
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:58,880
but now we've moved over to a completely

1278
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:00,640
you know where we've got multi-sensory

1279
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:02,960
kinds of data all different types of

1280
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:05,599
data that we can use technology tools

1281
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:07,520
that are now going to give science a

1282
00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:09,760
little bit more information than this

1283
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:12,560
crude drawing with a crayon right you

1284
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:14,000
know i mean

1285
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,400
and so you know i'm excited about the

1286
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:18,079
time that we're in right now and i'm

1287
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:20,480
thinking that man the potential here is

1288
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:22,079
that we're going to have maybe answers

1289
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,599
within

1290
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,440
i don't know if in my lifetime but maybe

1291
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:27,200
within maybe a couple decades or

1292
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:29,200
something anyway

1293
00:45:32,790 --> 00:45:30,960
yeah that'd be awesome

1294
00:45:34,790 --> 00:45:32,800
uh am i right in saying rich that in the

1295
00:45:37,270 --> 00:45:34,800
last few months the seo opened up the

1296
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:37,280
reporting uh system through through the

1297
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:40,480
seou website for public sightings and

1298
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:41,520
things

1299
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,800
yeah so

1300
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:44,400
let me let me

1301
00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:46,800
talk about that for a second we do have

1302
00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:48,480
a group of people that we're looking to

1303
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:51,200
do investigations with we're not looking

1304
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:54,480
to do though uh you know mufon's job

1305
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:56,319
we're not trying to replace what mufon

1306
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:58,560
does or anything of that nature

1307
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:01,200
we don't we're we're looking for the the

1308
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:05,200
reports with critical credible data or

1309
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:07,440
information or or some of the better

1310
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,400
cases if you would sure do the ones that

1311
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,160
we can pass off the science that would

1312
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:14,480
be helpful so in other words if you've

1313
00:46:18,390 --> 00:46:16,800
got like let's say you've got like a

1314
00:46:20,309 --> 00:46:18,400
sighting that was in a given area and

1315
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:20,319
you've got three people who took video

1316
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,319
of it from different angles you might be

1317
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:24,560
able to triangulate where that's at you

1318
00:46:28,630 --> 00:46:26,640
know or if they had some other kinds of

1319
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,640
tools like air traffic controllers maybe

1320
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:30,240
in the area might have also witnessed it

1321
00:46:35,430 --> 00:46:32,480
right and they picked it up on radar so

1322
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:35,440
you could add to that some actual

1323
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:38,079
data you know and start to look at it

1324
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:40,400
again that we can go with as opposed to

1325
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:44,240
just an anecdotal you know story that

1326
00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:47,200
somebody's coming up with which you know

1327
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:49,520
is hard to be able to determine truth

1328
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,319
and fact from that right because humans

1329
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:53,920
are fallible

1330
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,920
as even as observers you know and so

1331
00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:59,520
that's what we're looking for and that's

1332
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:02,480
the kind of reports that we want to get

1333
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:06,000
not the you know i i took a picture and

1334
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:08,000
there's a i pointed it toward the sun

1335
00:47:12,069 --> 00:47:09,760
and i have a little blue orb down there

1336
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:12,079
which is basically a lens reflection

1337
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:16,390
now um

1338
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:18,480
i think uh a conversation that's uh that

1339
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:20,480
always crops up though that i certainly

1340
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:22,720
see a lot but we don't necessarily get a

1341
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:24,800
lot of information on is

1342
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:27,119
materials meta materials and things like

1343
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:28,800
that we know people like gary nolan

1344
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:30,720
speak about it and we know in the past

1345
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:32,880
jacques vallee has as well but

1346
00:47:37,510 --> 00:47:35,119
do gentlemen have any conversations

1347
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:37,520
information or does that conversation

1348
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:39,359
come up more in the scientific community

1349
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:41,920
than maybe in the public realm

1350
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:44,079
well the that would be you know if we

1351
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:45,839
had materials that we could test and

1352
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:47,599
show have you know for example an

1353
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:50,079
isotopic content that's not that's not

1354
00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:52,240
terrestrial that's really that's a huge

1355
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:54,559
smoking gun you always hear about these

1356
00:47:58,390 --> 00:47:56,800
claims but the thing is

1357
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,400
is it's um

1358
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:00,240
again not seeing anything published i

1359
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:02,720
think gary noland though and and many of

1360
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,559
uh is working hard on this as well as

1361
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:06,480
jack vale and others really look forward

1362
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,880
to some results that are really solid

1363
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:11,280
that say here's a piece of here's some

1364
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:14,720
piece of some stuff and either it has um

1365
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:18,240
isotopic content that doesn't match uh

1366
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:20,720
doesn't match the earth moon system or

1367
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:22,240
and slash or

1368
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:25,119
it's got like materials manufactured to

1369
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:26,960
scale smaller than we can you know on

1370
00:48:31,270 --> 00:48:29,359
some sort of for nanoscale that we find

1371
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:31,280
that's that's really the smoking gun i

1372
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:33,440
was really disappointed during the

1373
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:35,200
hearing this dude came up and they're

1374
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:39,910
well

1375
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:41,920
i hope that's wrong

1376
00:48:44,549 --> 00:48:42,960
because that would be that would be

1377
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:44,559
great at the same time i've always been

1378
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,640
really really skeptical about wreckage

1379
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:48,400
because the way um

1380
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:51,760
actually uh um a a a friend of mine bob

1381
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:53,200
put it is um

1382
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:54,480
if they're so advanced why are they

1383
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:57,280
always crashing so it's kind of bizarre

1384
00:49:01,109 --> 00:48:58,800
to think about the possibility of

1385
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:01,119
wreckage because if they're so advanced

1386
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:03,040
that shouldn't be happening but i'm

1387
00:49:06,390 --> 00:49:04,400
definitely open to the possibility

1388
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,400
especially because that's way better

1389
00:49:10,549 --> 00:49:08,400
than even than even multiple sensors

1390
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:10,559
like rich said like radar and stuff

1391
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,119
if i have a hunk of material i can test

1392
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:15,440
in the lab and prove it's not of this

1393
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:17,839
earth with current technology that's it

1394
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:20,319
that's game over that shuts up every

1395
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:23,760
skeptic debunker that's the gat is it

1396
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:26,240
that's the holy grail so i'm open to the

1397
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:29,119
possibility and i would love

1398
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:31,520
love it if we had something like that

1399
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:32,800
yeah

1400
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:34,880
i think that the uh in the in the

1401
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:36,720
context of the military world let me

1402
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:38,480
just speak for that because you know

1403
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:40,480
basically what happens in a lot of the

1404
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,559
cases of any material or anything that

1405
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:44,880
falls out of the sky it does go into the

1406
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,119
military world and the military world

1407
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:49,119
has specific routes that it passes

1408
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:51,359
things to so like for example here in

1409
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:53,440
huntsville we have a mystic missile and

1410
00:49:57,750 --> 00:49:55,200
space intelligence center

1411
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:57,760
so if you get a gun from the iraqis or

1412
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:59,040
something like that guess where it's

1413
00:50:01,589 --> 00:50:00,240
going to go it's going to go here you're

1414
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:01,599
going to have scientists that are up

1415
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:03,440
there doing a re-engineering of it and

1416
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:05,440
it'll stay within the military world as

1417
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:07,920
to michael's point earlier about the

1418
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,920
fact that this somehow stays in the

1419
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:11,520
military world and doesn't get out to

1420
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,720
the scientific world so uh i think i'll

1421
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,480
point to the fact that there's

1422
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:18,160
you know there's been reports like on

1423
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:20,319
the scale of about 200 crashes that have

1424
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:23,359
happened over throughout the world uh i

1425
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:24,960
worked with

1426
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:27,200
len springfield on and he was working on

1427
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:29,280
these crash retrieval types of things

1428
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,559
but

1429
00:50:35,109 --> 00:50:32,559
what i'm going to say to you is that

1430
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:35,119
anything that that the military does fit

1431
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:38,000
or picks up is within the military and

1432
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:40,079
then it's classified beyond anything

1433
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,599
you've ever known

1434
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,240
and you'll never know about it right so

1435
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,559
it's quite feasible that within the

1436
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:49,040
realm of the military then it's been

1437
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,720
documented that they've been out at many

1438
00:50:56,549 --> 00:50:53,359
sites the kecksburg crash that took

1439
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:56,559
place with military right allegedly

1440
00:51:01,349 --> 00:50:59,520
roswell was all picked up and

1441
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:01,359
by military right

1442
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:04,079
so i think that that could potentially

1443
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:06,880
exist within the military world

1444
00:51:11,910 --> 00:51:10,079
it's not necessarily as known to us and

1445
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:11,920
i'm thrilled with the fact that gary

1446
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:12,960
nolan

1447
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:15,599
at least has some material from

1448
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:16,960
somewhere

1449
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:19,040
that he can work with but the problems

1450
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:20,800
we have with material

1451
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:23,280
is that we don't know necessarily the

1452
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:26,480
chain of custody and where it came from

1453
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:29,359
and those types of things lead into

1454
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:31,520
problems for scientific research and

1455
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:32,559
study

1456
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:34,319
because if you don't have that that

1457
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:36,319
chain of evidence or where it was passed

1458
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,920
or where it came from

1459
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:39,920
then you know who's to say where it's

1460
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:40,720
from

1461
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:42,160
and that's always going to be a question

1462
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:44,079
mark with the rest of the world in terms

1463
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:45,599
of trying to figure out

1464
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:46,640
you know

1465
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:52,000
does doesn't have any uh unearthly types

1466
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:53,680
of material

1467
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:55,040
uh

1468
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:56,720
types of situations

1469
00:52:01,510 --> 00:52:00,000
we do have within seu besides the fact

1470
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:01,520
that you know that there's people like

1471
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:04,000
you know gary nolan out there but we do

1472
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:06,559
have other people who have done lab work

1473
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:08,960
uh the delphos kansas case for example

1474
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:10,960
the soil samples that were taken from

1475
00:52:13,990 --> 00:52:11,760
that

1476
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:14,000
were analyzed by phyllis buttinger and a

1477
00:52:18,150 --> 00:52:15,760
number of people that actually are in

1478
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:18,160
scu and they did a tremendous amount of

1479
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:20,559
work on those types of debris those

1480
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:22,880
these effects if you would which showed

1481
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:24,559
that there was definitely something that

1482
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:26,880
was very profound there right

1483
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:29,280
uh so we can get that type of

1484
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:32,400
information uh from at least some of the

1485
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:34,720
effects to the soil and we need to keep

1486
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:37,680
having that and that's areas where we as

1487
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:40,000
a organization are continuing to strive

1488
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:41,119
to improve

1489
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:43,280
how we do that get labs on board where

1490
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:45,200
we're going to send things over and that

1491
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:46,640
type of thing

1492
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:48,800
excellent yeah yeah so sometimes it

1493
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,319
doesn't have to be the actual materials

1494
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:52,319
it could be traces

1495
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:55,119
uh or or radiation or things like that

1496
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:56,000
that can

1497
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:58,079
yes yeah i think yeah i mean i might

1498
00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,520
personally probably forget that and all

1499
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:00,960
you can think about is a solid or

1500
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:02,400
something but yeah

1501
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:04,559
you know a biological sample would be

1502
00:53:08,870 --> 00:53:06,480
great too i'd love to have like an

1503
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:08,880
alien's leg or something i mean i even

1504
00:53:12,470 --> 00:53:10,640
take a toe i don't

1505
00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:12,480
i just give me something man it's always

1506
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:14,800
about these materials that come from the

1507
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:18,720
ship but that yeah i'd i'd be over the

1508
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:20,160
the moon if there was some sort of

1509
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,920
biological sample

1510
00:53:26,150 --> 00:53:24,000
what's amazing to me is that you know

1511
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,160
don't they have dna i mean it seemed

1512
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:28,319
like you would find dna trace evidence

1513
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:29,920
somewhere where they were walking around

1514
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:32,319
some sort of skin sample or something

1515
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:34,000
yeah i mean we haven't been looking for

1516
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,920
it though either we don't treat it like

1517
00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:37,440
a crime scene

1518
00:53:41,349 --> 00:53:39,680
exactly if we did yeah if we treated it

1519
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:41,359
like a forensic crime scene maybe we'd

1520
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:42,800
find i mean they seemingly don't have

1521
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:44,160
hair at least

1522
00:53:49,030 --> 00:53:46,079
yeah the majority of them but yeah there

1523
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:49,040
might be something else and

1524
00:53:51,750 --> 00:53:50,079
that's the thing we just need to change

1525
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,760
the way we conceptualize this and change

1526
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:53,760
the way we conceptualize evidence and

1527
00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:56,559
look for things that you know fit fit

1528
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:58,400
the description of of abductions or

1529
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,640
close encounters or sightings and then

1530
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:02,720
try to see maybe what else we could get

1531
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:04,960
from it um yeah that's a great idea i'm

1532
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:06,160
gonna i'm gonna go into the next

1533
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:07,920
abduction with some rubber gloves and

1534
00:54:12,309 --> 00:54:10,319
some tweezers and try to find something

1535
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:12,319
yeah well mr cackle always says you get

1536
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:14,319
abducted steal something i think you

1537
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:16,319
forgot the fact that people get stripped

1538
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,760
naked though there's nothing yeah and

1539
00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:19,599
tony of the us boys tried to steal a

1540
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:21,040
clock when he was abducted and they

1541
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:22,720
caught him and got all pissed off about

1542
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:24,640
it yeah yeah

1543
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:26,800
the clock yeah i said he tried to steal

1544
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:28,800
what what he assumed was a clock

1545
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:31,359
that had like the the all the little

1546
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:33,839
dashes were in the same places

1547
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:36,240
i always get a kick out of the the the

1548
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:38,079
the cases there that where they're in

1549
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:39,599
their bed and they're somehow like

1550
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:41,760
moving through walls you know it's like

1551
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:43,359
well i wonder if they came back with a

1552
00:54:45,830 --> 00:54:45,040
cloth would they be able to get that

1553
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:45,840
through the wall

1554
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:50,559
[Laughter]

1555
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:52,160
yeah no there was a there was a woman

1556
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:54,160
amy rylance in australia who was

1557
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:56,079
abducted through a window and she was

1558
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:57,760
being carried out her friend petra saw

1559
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,200
her being carried out the window with

1560
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:01,200
the contents of the coffee table

1561
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:02,960
petra went through the window and all

1562
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:04,720
the contents of the coffee table fell to

1563
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:07,119
the floor well there we go kind of kind

1564
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:08,799
of indicates maybe you can't take the

1565
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,799
other stuff too i mean nobody knows how

1566
00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:12,319
the hell they do this in the first place

1567
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:13,119
like

1568
00:55:16,390 --> 00:55:14,720
people go through

1569
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:16,400
solid matter but

1570
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:18,319
um yeah that might be some indication

1571
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:19,920
that you can't necessarily take things

1572
00:55:28,230 --> 00:55:25,510
now michael just theoretically if

1573
00:55:30,789 --> 00:55:28,240
if we found one of these time travelers

1574
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:30,799
to be or look exactly like we do as

1575
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:33,040
human would that surprise you would you

1576
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,640
have expected them to have evolved and

1577
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:37,280
looked to look different

1578
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:40,079
no in fact in my new book uh they i

1579
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:41,920
think it's

1580
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:43,760
probably in about a week and a half i

1581
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:45,280
think it'll publish but the first two

1582
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:47,920
case studies the first one in particular

1583
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:50,960
it's an entirely modern human looking

1584
00:55:56,230 --> 00:55:54,240
individual he spoke vocally um

1585
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:56,240
wore the one piece bodysuit came out of

1586
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,480
the same silvery metallic craft it was

1587
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:00,559
it was actually right here in montana uh

1588
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:02,400
joan byrd talks about it

1589
00:56:07,589 --> 00:56:04,400
in more detail in her book monta montana

1590
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:07,599
ufos but he he was getting water out of

1591
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:09,200
the sluice stream there was a miner up

1592
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:10,960
there who heard the the low buzzing

1593
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,880
sound went around the corner was like oh

1594
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:14,640
it's this guy walks out says can we take

1595
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,880
some water we extract the hydrogen as

1596
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:18,480
our fuel source gives them a tour of the

1597
00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:21,280
ship he writes uh senator john glenn

1598
00:56:25,670 --> 00:56:23,520
former astronaut about this with great

1599
00:56:27,349 --> 00:56:25,680
detail about everything he learned about

1600
00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:27,359
the inner workings the mechanics of this

1601
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:29,119
ship which he didn't have a full grasp

1602
00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:31,040
on as a a minor

1603
00:56:34,870 --> 00:56:31,920
um

1604
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:34,880
but no it indicated to me and many other

1605
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:36,559
cases i've come across like this in

1606
00:56:41,430 --> 00:56:39,599
researching this new work is that

1607
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,440
if they are time travelers and i'll put

1608
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:44,160
that out there as if this is the case it

1609
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,760
indicates that we're going to be doing

1610
00:56:49,109 --> 00:56:47,680
it much sooner than i previously thought

1611
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,119
when i wrote the first book it mostly

1612
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:51,599
focused on the grays and the derived

1613
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:53,680
synapomorphic characteristics where they

1614
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,440
have the bigger heads smaller face

1615
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:57,280
bigger eyes all these traits we'd expect

1616
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:59,520
to see tens of thousands of years in the

1617
00:57:02,789 --> 00:57:01,200
future but then you have these cases

1618
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:02,799
where it's an entirely

1619
00:57:07,270 --> 00:57:05,359
modern looking person just like us so i

1620
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:07,280
don't know i've kind of kind of revised

1621
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:09,040
my understanding of

1622
00:57:12,789 --> 00:57:10,960
this or at least the way i conceptualize

1623
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:12,799
it where it's not just a prediction

1624
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:14,319
about our long-term

1625
00:57:18,230 --> 00:57:16,240
uh evolutionary not just physical but

1626
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,240
cultural and technological evolution but

1627
00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:20,480
it may actually occur sooner than sooner

1628
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,640
than later i just wish someone this

1629
00:57:26,230 --> 00:57:24,720
would happen again in the smartphone era

1630
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:26,240
i want something like so here's the

1631
00:57:30,950 --> 00:57:29,119
spaceship and like yeah i know we that's

1632
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:30,960
really what we need because otherwise

1633
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:33,520
there will always be a way to say it was

1634
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:35,359
imagined it never happened yeah

1635
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:37,040
absolutely yeah and i and i talk about

1636
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:39,040
that a lot in the book you know what how

1637
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:40,400
do we

1638
00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:43,839
there's things that can be corroborated

1639
00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:46,160
for instance amy ryland's been taken out

1640
00:57:49,750 --> 00:57:48,160
the window that was seen by her friend

1641
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:49,760
and she there were three different

1642
00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:52,240
jurisdictions involved the she was taken

1643
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:54,079
to a hospital so you have all of the

1644
00:57:59,030 --> 00:57:56,960
doctors and the nurses report so we we

1645
00:58:01,109 --> 00:57:59,040
can find ways to substantiate certain

1646
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:01,119
things but yeah and that i've always

1647
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:02,960
said that the abduction aspect is a more

1648
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:04,400
tan

1649
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:05,839
us

1650
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:09,280
thrown out we should be considering it

1651
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:10,960
as well and especially if we see

1652
00:58:14,549 --> 00:58:12,720
consistent patterns across all of these

1653
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:14,559
cases we should take that into

1654
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:16,799
consideration and and use that to try to

1655
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:18,880
get as much information as we can with

1656
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:21,680
with the overtly stated caveat that it's

1657
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:23,440
never going to be

1658
00:58:28,549 --> 00:58:26,880
as reliable as many other forms of data

1659
00:58:30,150 --> 00:58:28,559
yeah no i'm not saying throw it out i've

1660
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:30,160
said this to rich many times people

1661
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:33,680
laugh whenever i say this and uh i i i

1662
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:36,240
many people claim to be repeat abductees

1663
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:37,920
experiencers

1664
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:40,720
great we should like totally wire up

1665
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:43,359
their bedroom with like every possible

1666
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:45,680
camera imaginable and i all i've ever

1667
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:47,359
heard when i've said that is like oh hal

1668
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:48,480
put off already did that and the

1669
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:50,400
following happened i'm like um can you

1670
00:58:54,069 --> 00:58:51,839
show me that on paper that's just

1671
00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:54,079
hearsay prove it to me i'm absolutely

1672
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:55,520
not saying throw it out i would want to

1673
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:57,920
study the crap out of it if i had time

1674
00:59:02,069 --> 00:58:59,680
and money and people willing i would

1675
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:02,079
have so many cameras of different types

1676
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:04,160
in that bedroom we would know one way or

1677
00:59:08,470 --> 00:59:06,079
another right away whether it's in the

1678
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:08,480
head or if it's a real abduction and

1679
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:10,640
again i don't buy the like oh well hal

1680
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:12,960
tried that and it didn't work prove it

1681
00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:14,880
show me next time i see hal i hope he

1682
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:16,880
comes to you and be like where did you

1683
00:59:20,549 --> 00:59:18,960
publish that how like it's not good

1684
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:20,559
enough to say like oh i tried it it

1685
00:59:24,870 --> 00:59:23,599
didn't work that's not good enough

1686
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,880
yeah yeah

1687
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:26,640
and that's what i was saying like if if

1688
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:28,400
i could be the observer or any trained

1689
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:30,240
observer that went from place to place

1690
00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:32,160
we could use that observational data but

1691
00:59:36,470 --> 00:59:34,000
it's coming from different people with

1692
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:36,480
their own fuzzy memories their own

1693
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:38,720
way of conceptualizing things their own

1694
00:59:42,150 --> 00:59:40,720
belief systems that come into play but

1695
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:42,160
but like what you said too if we could

1696
00:59:45,109 --> 00:59:43,440
have the sensors if we could have

1697
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,119
cameras if we could have anything that's

1698
00:59:49,349 --> 00:59:47,280
checking for electromagnetic anomalies

1699
00:59:51,430 --> 00:59:49,359
have that in that place where some

1700
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:51,440
sometimes these people claim to be taken

1701
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:54,799
upwards 50 to 60 times throughout the

1702
00:59:59,670 --> 00:59:57,760
course of you know 15 20 years so

1703
01:00:02,630 --> 00:59:59,680
clearly you

1704
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:02,640
yeah absolutely or even just one data

1705
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:04,640
point where you can capture that on

1706
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:07,040
video or whatever is happening and it

1707
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:09,359
would be phenomenal yeah now what i've

1708
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:10,319
heard is

1709
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:12,079
allegedly again this was not proven to

1710
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:14,319
me oh when we've tried to do it then the

1711
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:16,799
abduction stop and i'm like yeah that

1712
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:19,200
that that's very smelly that's very

1713
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:21,200
fishy to me yeah okay

1714
01:00:23,589 --> 01:00:22,480
so i

1715
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:23,599
yeah

1716
01:00:28,069 --> 01:00:25,839
i'll just share with you that that i

1717
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:28,079
know mufon apparently it tried that as

1718
01:00:32,069 --> 01:00:30,000
well where they had uh devices that they

1719
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:32,079
were putting in the rooms and of course

1720
01:00:35,430 --> 01:00:33,760
it's like like everything else it's like

1721
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,440
you know how do you predict when these

1722
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:36,880
things and then think about the sheer

1723
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:38,880
volume of data you're collecting

1724
01:00:42,309 --> 01:00:40,640
you know in terms of just every day i'm

1725
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:42,319
recording my bedroom when i go to bed at

1726
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:44,000
night or something of that nature over

1727
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:45,599
like a period of years then they come

1728
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:48,880
back but uh anyway uh you know there's

1729
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:50,799
challenges with it but you know i agree

1730
01:00:55,030 --> 01:00:52,960
with you if you if you have like

1731
01:00:56,789 --> 01:00:55,040
it's pretty logical you know go where

1732
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:56,799
the objects and the

1733
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:58,559
tend to go right if you're going to do a

1734
01:01:02,710 --> 01:01:01,280
study we'll hang around a nuke site

1735
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:02,720
if you're going to do it you know go to

1736
01:01:07,030 --> 01:01:05,359
an adduction you know and and basically

1737
01:01:09,270 --> 01:01:07,040
you know set up as much as you can to be

1738
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:09,280
able to do something with it right and

1739
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,640
so exactly

1740
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,880
yeah two convenient spots the thing i

1741
01:01:16,870 --> 01:01:14,319
want to come back to was just want to

1742
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:16,880
mention that you know going back to the

1743
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:19,599
humanoid uh the human being the the

1744
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:22,079
alien if you would so to speak

1745
01:01:25,670 --> 01:01:24,000
let me clarify that in the early days of

1746
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:25,680
ufology when i was running around doing

1747
01:01:29,109 --> 01:01:27,119
all these studies and things like that

1748
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:29,119
back in the 50s and everything else you

1749
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:30,720
know some of them look like us some of

1750
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:32,319
them didn't look like us some are like

1751
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:34,240
the the kelly hopkinsville or the little

1752
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,400
robot a little robot types of things

1753
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,799
you've got creatures like a mummy if you

1754
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:40,559
would that that charlie hickson and

1755
01:01:45,829 --> 01:01:43,520
calvin parker saw on cat and pascagoula

1756
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:45,839
it was a giant robot i think it was a

1757
01:01:49,430 --> 01:01:47,599
robot yeah they abducted them sort of

1758
01:01:50,630 --> 01:01:49,440
maybe like a robot or something like

1759
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:50,640
that

1760
01:01:55,029 --> 01:01:52,720
and then you have all these other types

1761
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:55,039
of beings that are seen in around the

1762
01:01:58,549 --> 01:01:56,160
world that

1763
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:58,559
that are kind of like very unique or

1764
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,920
have characteristics some were like

1765
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:02,240
little dwarves uh if you take a look at

1766
01:02:08,309 --> 01:02:06,480
the the tom reed uh i think in matt read

1767
01:02:10,390 --> 01:02:08,319
uh cases up

1768
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:10,400
uh you'll you'll see that that in that

1769
01:02:14,230 --> 01:02:12,480
case where there was actually some like

1770
01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:14,240
physical trace evidence that was also

1771
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:16,240
supporting it that these are looking

1772
01:02:20,789 --> 01:02:18,319
like more like the typical

1773
01:02:23,349 --> 01:02:20,799
reptilians they didn't have an

1774
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:23,359
appearance very much like at all like

1775
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:26,799
with uh human uh but anyway i guess what

1776
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:28,079
i'm trying to get at is that there's all

1777
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:31,359
these variations of beings that make you

1778
01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:34,559
like tend to like wonder like well what

1779
01:02:39,430 --> 01:02:37,359
are we a zoo i mean is this is this a

1780
01:02:41,589 --> 01:02:39,440
visitation this is the natural park

1781
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:41,599
where i come to do it and they're coming

1782
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,359
from multiple sources

1783
01:02:47,829 --> 01:02:45,599
uh you know is it not just from the

1784
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:47,839
future is it from somewhere else where

1785
01:02:51,910 --> 01:02:48,880
there's

1786
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:51,920
so is any one hypothesis necessarily

1787
01:02:57,829 --> 01:02:54,640
proven no there's multiple hypotheses

1788
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:57,839
and maybe it's many origins

1789
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,839
i guess is what i'm trying to get at but

1790
01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:01,280
it just seems that there's all these

1791
01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:02,799
variations but

1792
01:03:07,190 --> 01:03:04,880
when you look at the actual object

1793
01:03:09,190 --> 01:03:07,200
maneuverability like the ufo or

1794
01:03:11,430 --> 01:03:09,200
something how it maneuvers

1795
01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:11,440
that remains kind of consistent with all

1796
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:14,799
of them regardless of the size

1797
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:17,039
you can have a an object that's reported

1798
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,839
the size of a grapefruit that's hovering

1799
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:21,359
and then shoots off at an incredible

1800
01:03:25,589 --> 01:03:23,440
rate of speed at the same time you can

1801
01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:25,599
have something that's huge like the

1802
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:27,440
alaskan uh

1803
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:29,760
sighting where it's also doing a very

1804
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:31,680
kind of similar motion or something of

1805
01:03:36,390 --> 01:03:34,079
that nature so and they all typically

1806
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:36,400
that's pretty consistent so how do you

1807
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,799
explain the different in terms of the

1808
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:40,559
beings

1809
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,400
well i'd like to point out real quick

1810
01:03:46,630 --> 01:03:44,640
that and and there's always problems

1811
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:46,640
with survey data but the dr edgar

1812
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,480
mitchell foundation free study did a

1813
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:50,400
massive and it's continuing they're up

1814
01:03:55,430 --> 01:03:52,559
to over five thousand

1815
01:03:57,510 --> 01:03:55,440
uh abductees and contactees but they

1816
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:57,520
they showed statistically at least in

1817
01:04:01,829 --> 01:03:59,440
analyzing what people report that those

1818
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:01,839
who witness these beings the majority

1819
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:03,760
were described as human

1820
01:04:08,390 --> 01:04:05,920
not not just humanoid or human-like but

1821
01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:08,400
human exactly like us after that was the

1822
01:04:12,549 --> 01:04:10,480
short graze and then the tall grace and

1823
01:04:14,309 --> 01:04:12,559
only about five percent of all of these

1824
01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:14,319
abductees reported seen something like a

1825
01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:16,400
reptilian or a mantid or some sort of

1826
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:18,720
insect so i mean if if we can consider

1827
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:20,880
survey data in this in in a survey of

1828
01:04:25,109 --> 01:04:22,960
abductees and again it's a little more

1829
01:04:27,029 --> 01:04:25,119
tenuous because of their experiences and

1830
01:04:29,029 --> 01:04:27,039
how they remember it but the fact that

1831
01:04:30,470 --> 01:04:29,039
the majority are described as human

1832
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:30,480
despite you're always going to have

1833
01:04:35,430 --> 01:04:32,960
outliers in any data set and it almost

1834
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:35,440
seems like these mothman dogman type

1835
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:38,079
creatures are very very rare examples

1836
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:39,680
which could be attributed to something

1837
01:04:44,549 --> 01:04:41,839
entirely different but and the ones seen

1838
01:04:46,630 --> 01:04:44,559
in association with the craft especially

1839
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:46,640
are almost ubiquitously described as

1840
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:48,000
human so i think there is more

1841
01:04:52,470 --> 01:04:50,480
consistency in the craft and the beans

1842
01:04:56,390 --> 01:04:52,480
than than maybe what what you're giving

1843
01:04:59,589 --> 01:04:56,400
it credit for how uh so prior to the

1844
01:05:01,510 --> 01:04:59,599
betty and barney hill case

1845
01:05:04,549 --> 01:05:01,520
i rarely have ever heard anything that

1846
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:04,559
looked like the the grays at all

1847
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:07,039
described in any case that i went to or

1848
01:05:11,430 --> 01:05:09,359
any case that i ever read

1849
01:05:13,990 --> 01:05:11,440
yeah antonio vs boas was kind of a

1850
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:14,000
hybrid yeah it was okay

1851
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:15,839
right yeah that's that's the one case

1852
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:18,640
that's prior that kind of sticks out but

1853
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:20,319
but my point is i guess i'm trying to

1854
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:22,720
say is that it's seem like you know and

1855
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:24,480
this is part of how myth creations

1856
01:05:28,230 --> 01:05:26,160
happen

1857
01:05:30,069 --> 01:05:28,240
you know people see something they watch

1858
01:05:32,470 --> 01:05:30,079
something and then it becomes part of

1859
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:32,480
the culture to where that they see them

1860
01:05:37,190 --> 01:05:35,039
too how much has that come into play and

1861
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:37,200
all these cases generally showing that

1862
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:40,319
type of thing from like about 1961 going

1863
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:41,760
on

1864
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:43,680
and so i guess what i'm trying to get at

1865
01:05:47,829 --> 01:05:45,359
is you know if i

1866
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:47,839
have a great case like betty and barney

1867
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:50,559
hill seeing these things how much does

1868
01:05:54,470 --> 01:05:52,720
that plant into the consciousness mind

1869
01:05:55,829 --> 01:05:54,480
that these are necessarily the same

1870
01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:55,839
things and i'm going to report it that

1871
01:06:00,150 --> 01:05:57,440
way yeah and that's one of the main

1872
01:06:02,710 --> 01:06:00,160
reasons i tried to get pre-1947 pre

1873
01:06:04,549 --> 01:06:02,720
betty and barney hill cases because yeah

1874
01:06:08,230 --> 01:06:04,559
you have a collective consciousness that

1875
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,240
can be affected by these things and and

1876
01:06:11,670 --> 01:06:10,720
i address the psychosocial hypothesis

1877
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:11,680
with the fact that we try to

1878
01:06:15,349 --> 01:06:13,680
anthropomorphize things it's natural for

1879
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:15,359
us to do that are we imposing a human

1880
01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:17,440
form on these things because we're human

1881
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:19,119
and it's understandable to us regardless

1882
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:21,280
of where or when they come from so we

1883
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,640
definitely have to acknowledge that and

1884
01:06:26,069 --> 01:06:24,640
it's what i keep coming back to is what

1885
01:06:28,309 --> 01:06:26,079
is evidence how

1886
01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:28,319
how can we understand these things and

1887
01:06:31,670 --> 01:06:30,240
we've just dismissed it for so long but

1888
01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:31,680
all these people are having such

1889
01:06:35,990 --> 01:06:33,680
consistent experiences

1890
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:36,000
and i i didn't select any case for any

1891
01:06:40,150 --> 01:06:37,920
one particular reason i was just diving

1892
01:06:42,069 --> 01:06:40,160
in to find the most vetted the most the

1893
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:42,079
ones that have like travis walton where

1894
01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:43,920
people saw him taken he's gone the

1895
01:06:46,630 --> 01:06:44,960
police

1896
01:06:48,390 --> 01:06:46,640
come up they're looking where we can

1897
01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:48,400
look at these facts associated with the

1898
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:49,599
disappearance and understand how

1899
01:06:53,670 --> 01:06:52,079
anomalous it is but then also focus on

1900
01:06:55,109 --> 01:06:53,680
the way it happened what he described

1901
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:55,119
seeing what other people described

1902
01:06:59,109 --> 01:06:57,520
seeing and and try to put together this

1903
01:07:02,309 --> 01:06:59,119
this massive

1904
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:02,319
uh amount of observational data that we

1905
01:07:05,349 --> 01:07:03,599
can then go through and look for

1906
01:07:07,109 --> 01:07:05,359
patterns in because there are patterns

1907
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:07,119
there's so much consistency across these

1908
01:07:10,349 --> 01:07:09,119
accounts regardless of when they happen

1909
01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:10,359
post

1910
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:12,400
1947 pre

1911
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,480
betty and barney hill there's so much

1912
01:07:18,069 --> 01:07:16,559
consistency and i think i think it needs

1913
01:07:19,750 --> 01:07:18,079
to be a part of the conversation to be

1914
01:07:20,950 --> 01:07:19,760
honest

1915
01:07:22,549 --> 01:07:20,960
excuse me

1916
01:07:24,069 --> 01:07:22,559
yeah i thought that you know like for me

1917
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:24,079
it was always when i got started with

1918
01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:25,680
this whole thing it's like it was always

1919
01:07:28,630 --> 01:07:26,799
curious to

1920
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:28,640
to hear that other countries were

1921
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:30,640
reporting the same things you know and

1922
01:07:35,430 --> 01:07:33,440
so like you know uh you had the reverend

1923
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,440
gill and papua new guinea that was

1924
01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:37,280
talking about seeing an object and even

1925
01:07:41,990 --> 01:07:39,839
waving at beings and they waved back on

1926
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:42,000
the crap right so animations of that are

1927
01:07:44,789 --> 01:07:43,920
hilarious too or he's way back with this

1928
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:44,799
guy

1929
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:47,200
yeah exactly you know but i i thought it

1930
01:07:51,589 --> 01:07:49,280
was interesting in the context that for

1931
01:07:54,150 --> 01:07:51,599
me it just it told me that that look

1932
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:54,160
it's just not a us phenomena it's it

1933
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:57,039
goes beyond the us it's in other places

1934
01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:58,559
and there seems to be this inherent

1935
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:00,880
consistency even with people who don't

1936
01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:02,960
have tvs can't watch the science fiction

1937
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:04,559
shows that i'm doing and this is a

1938
01:08:09,349 --> 01:08:06,640
tribal area and they're describing the

1939
01:08:11,270 --> 01:08:09,359
same type of thing right so absolutely

1940
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:11,280
yeah i recently went on a two-week trip

1941
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:14,000
to zimbabwe

1942
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:15,760
yeah we did an investigation in colombia

1943
01:08:18,789 --> 01:08:17,440
recently and it was it's ingrained in

1944
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:18,799
the society

1945
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:20,480
everybody wants to talk about ufos

1946
01:08:24,149 --> 01:08:22,319
there's murals and pictures everywhere

1947
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:24,159
it's just completely different out there

1948
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:26,400
so it's funny how it does in certain

1949
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:27,920
cultures and countries and things it's

1950
01:08:33,030 --> 01:08:30,719
just it's the norm there's no stigma

1951
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:33,040
there's no taboo um

1952
01:08:36,870 --> 01:08:34,799
so so yeah um

1953
01:08:38,950 --> 01:08:36,880
one question that really i i keep seeing

1954
01:08:41,269 --> 01:08:38,960
this statement from people that and it

1955
01:08:42,789 --> 01:08:41,279
seems to it bothers me a bit and that is

1956
01:08:45,349 --> 01:08:42,799
if they were a threat

1957
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,359
they would have done something by now

1958
01:08:49,110 --> 01:08:47,440
which i i disagree with

1959
01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:49,120
because that's just us humanizing it

1960
01:08:52,630 --> 01:08:51,279
well they've been around for a long time

1961
01:08:54,149 --> 01:08:52,640
you know something would have happened

1962
01:08:55,829 --> 01:08:54,159
what do you guys think about a statement

1963
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:55,839
like that

1964
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:57,440
what is a long time

1965
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:58,640
exactly so

1966
01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:00,960
if if you look at um

1967
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:03,679
my colleague professor kevin knuth's

1968
01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:06,319
talk from scu i don't remember which one

1969
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:10,080
1919 or 2020 hybrid or 21 but

1970
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,040
um

1971
01:09:15,430 --> 01:09:13,440
relativistic time dilation means

1972
01:09:17,189 --> 01:09:15,440
that um if you've got

1973
01:09:18,309 --> 01:09:17,199
beings that can travel at relativistic

1974
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:18,319
speeds

1975
01:09:24,229 --> 01:09:22,080
it could have been a few months ago that

1976
01:09:26,709 --> 01:09:24,239
they were in you know watching the map

1977
01:09:29,590 --> 01:09:26,719
you know watching the the woolly mammoth

1978
01:09:31,189 --> 01:09:29,600
you know and then the stone age and then

1979
01:09:33,189 --> 01:09:31,199
it could or it could it could even be

1980
01:09:35,189 --> 01:09:33,199
five minutes so when people talking

1981
01:09:36,789 --> 01:09:35,199
about being you know visited by beings

1982
01:09:39,349 --> 01:09:36,799
the scary thing is

1983
01:09:42,149 --> 01:09:39,359
it could be the same ones because of

1984
01:09:44,229 --> 01:09:42,159
relativistic time dilation so the

1985
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:44,239
what does that mean oh but we've been

1986
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:47,359
seeing them a long time that would be

1987
01:09:50,470 --> 01:09:48,560
like saying

1988
01:09:53,030 --> 01:09:50,480
so i'm i am partially agreeing with you

1989
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:53,040
i want to be optimistic and positive but

1990
01:09:56,950 --> 01:09:55,199
your point is very valid because that

1991
01:09:59,189 --> 01:09:56,960
would be like the ants saying well those

1992
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:59,199
boot didn't that boot didn't crush me

1993
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:01,280
the last 10 times or 100 times that boot

1994
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:03,120
walk by that means that boot will never

1995
01:10:06,790 --> 01:10:05,520
crush me oh crap and then i'm an answer

1996
01:10:10,070 --> 01:10:06,800
not even squish

1997
01:10:12,149 --> 01:10:10,080
so so i i yeah i i think that

1998
01:10:14,470 --> 01:10:12,159
that might be even though like i said i

1999
01:10:16,870 --> 01:10:14,480
tend to be more positive and optimistic

2000
01:10:18,630 --> 01:10:16,880
i also think we shouldn't be naive

2001
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:18,640
right look at what stephen hawking said

2002
01:10:22,390 --> 01:10:20,320
for example about you know how things

2003
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:22,400
didn't go too well for the aztecs and

2004
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:23,920
the mayans and things like that these

2005
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:25,520
are valid

2006
01:10:30,870 --> 01:10:28,320
considerations definitely valid points

2007
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:30,880
we should not be comfy cozy

2008
01:10:35,990 --> 01:10:34,080
um and and naive

2009
01:10:38,550 --> 01:10:36,000
let me give you another

2010
01:10:40,870 --> 01:10:38,560
reframe on on that too because i it

2011
01:10:43,350 --> 01:10:40,880
might be uh you know just to

2012
01:10:45,189 --> 01:10:43,360
argue that a little bit um if you take a

2013
01:10:46,630 --> 01:10:45,199
look at the clarisse incident in in

2014
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:46,640
brazil

2015
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:48,640
would you describe that as and though

2016
01:10:52,070 --> 01:10:50,320
these people were being like attacked by

2017
01:10:55,030 --> 01:10:52,080
these things would you say that that's

2018
01:10:55,830 --> 01:10:55,040
necessarily friendly i mean and so i

2019
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:55,840
mean

2020
01:10:58,630 --> 01:10:57,600
part of what we say is you know they're

2021
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:58,640
not going to hurt us they're not going

2022
01:11:01,590 --> 01:11:00,239
to do that well these people would say

2023
01:11:03,189 --> 01:11:01,600
that definitely that they're out to hurt

2024
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:03,199
us right i mean because that's that's

2025
01:11:07,189 --> 01:11:05,520
their experience right whatever that was

2026
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:07,199
that was going on but why is it black

2027
01:11:10,470 --> 01:11:08,800
and white it's like you were earlier you

2028
01:11:12,070 --> 01:11:10,480
were saying how there could be if there

2029
01:11:13,350 --> 01:11:12,080
are intelligent races if they exist

2030
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:13,360
there could be different species there

2031
01:11:16,550 --> 01:11:14,960
could be and

2032
01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:16,560
travis taylor gave a talk on this at the

2033
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:18,560
very first conference right in 2019.

2034
01:11:21,510 --> 01:11:20,719
travis taylor's point was what if

2035
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,520
they're

2036
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:23,520
what if it's random and 50

2037
01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:25,679
evil and 50 percent bad if their

2038
01:11:30,870 --> 01:11:27,840
intelligence is out there i think that's

2039
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:30,880
a very fair point is why do we have to

2040
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:34,320
assume that technological superiority

2041
01:11:39,510 --> 01:11:36,719
automatically means moral moral

2042
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:39,520
superiority and i i don't think that's

2043
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,400
the case

2044
01:11:44,470 --> 01:11:42,000
just look at humanity with nuclear

2045
01:11:46,870 --> 01:11:44,480
weapons i really don't think i think

2046
01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:46,880
that one can be technologically superior

2047
01:11:50,470 --> 01:11:48,719
but still evil but i don't think it's

2048
01:11:51,669 --> 01:11:50,480
black and white because we could be

2049
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:51,679
different dealing with different

2050
01:11:57,030 --> 01:11:55,040
phenomena we could even if the eth

2051
01:11:59,189 --> 01:11:57,040
hypothesis is true could be different

2052
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,199
species i mean there's there's many

2053
01:12:02,790 --> 01:12:01,199
explanations there i guess that that's

2054
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,800
that was that's why i was going to go

2055
01:12:06,390 --> 01:12:04,640
with my point i would say just merely

2056
01:12:08,709 --> 01:12:06,400
pointing out the fact to the people in

2057
01:12:10,709 --> 01:12:08,719
in brazil who experienced that their

2058
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:10,719
perspective was that this was evil what

2059
01:12:14,310 --> 01:12:12,400
about the people that are being picked

2060
01:12:16,550 --> 01:12:14,320
up uh you know allegedly for the

2061
01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:16,560
abduction cases stuff like that and

2062
01:12:20,229 --> 01:12:18,159
being you know checked on would you say

2063
01:12:21,750 --> 01:12:20,239
that that's a very friendly thing that

2064
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:21,760
you know going against your will and

2065
01:12:26,149 --> 01:12:23,440
taking and dragging you out of your home

2066
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:26,159
and suddenly putting and allegedly doing

2067
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:31,750
so if that's going again though if we

2068
01:12:37,910 --> 01:12:33,600
you know it is if we if

2069
01:12:42,229 --> 01:12:40,070
yeah yeah

2070
01:12:44,310 --> 01:12:42,239
if we can if we can trust the survey

2071
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:44,320
data from from the free study the dr

2072
01:12:48,709 --> 01:12:46,800
edgar mitchell foundation study 85

2073
01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:48,719
of those who have an abduction

2074
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:50,880
experience

2075
01:12:53,750 --> 01:12:52,640
stated that it was either benign or

2076
01:12:55,590 --> 01:12:53,760
positive

2077
01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:55,600
uh if the ones that they were

2078
01:12:59,350 --> 01:12:57,440
interacting with were more human-like it

2079
01:13:01,189 --> 01:12:59,360
was only five percent that said they had

2080
01:13:02,790 --> 01:13:01,199
a negative experience so that that might

2081
01:13:04,229 --> 01:13:02,800
come back to your point too about there

2082
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:04,239
being different types different

2083
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:06,480
varieties whatever you want to call them

2084
01:13:10,709 --> 01:13:09,040
um who maybe don't have

2085
01:13:13,750 --> 01:13:10,719
of that same connectors for whatever

2086
01:13:15,270 --> 01:13:13,760
reason i'm not necessarily

2087
01:13:17,750 --> 01:13:15,280
just saying if they're us from elect

2088
01:13:19,669 --> 01:13:17,760
more humanity being shown from ones that

2089
01:13:21,510 --> 01:13:19,679
are more like us especially if we evolve

2090
01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:21,520
our consciousness if we evolve our sense

2091
01:13:24,390 --> 01:13:23,280
of empathy which i think is a very

2092
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:24,400
commonly reported thing in these

2093
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:26,320
abduction accounts as they feel a deep

2094
01:13:29,669 --> 01:13:28,080
sense of love and empathy even though

2095
01:13:31,750 --> 01:13:29,679
they're being probed in their rectums

2096
01:13:33,430 --> 01:13:31,760
and having you know eggs and sperm

2097
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:33,440
extracted which is a very invasive

2098
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:35,280
procedure it's it's a kidnapping it's

2099
01:13:39,510 --> 01:13:37,280
rape in some cases there's ethical

2100
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:39,520
issues involved with this but people

2101
01:13:43,270 --> 01:13:41,360
still come away with it more often than

2102
01:13:44,709 --> 01:13:43,280
not feeling like they're contributing to

2103
01:13:46,390 --> 01:13:44,719
something bigger than themselves they're

2104
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:46,400
contributing to some greater good that

2105
01:13:49,669 --> 01:13:47,520
they feel

2106
01:13:51,110 --> 01:13:49,679
uh almost proud to be a part of in many

2107
01:13:52,470 --> 01:13:51,120
cases and it kind of comes down to the

2108
01:13:54,149 --> 01:13:52,480
difference between a contactee and an

2109
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:54,159
abductee at that point

2110
01:13:57,990 --> 01:13:55,679
but but i think it's important to

2111
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:58,000
acknowledge those cases where you do

2112
01:14:01,990 --> 01:13:59,679
have and especially statistically if we

2113
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:02,000
can trust the survey data where the

2114
01:14:06,790 --> 01:14:03,840
statistics show that people are

2115
01:14:08,310 --> 01:14:06,800
genuinely okay with or really enjoy

2116
01:14:10,550 --> 01:14:08,320
their experiences whitley strieber is

2117
01:14:12,630 --> 01:14:10,560
one of the best examples he came to

2118
01:14:17,750 --> 01:14:12,640
crave this interaction with these people

2119
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:19,750
yeah and i i think i don't know if i

2120
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,560
caught it like but like again activating

2121
01:14:25,830 --> 01:14:24,239
missiles or deactivating missiles that

2122
01:14:28,470 --> 01:14:25,840
you know is that good bad

2123
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:28,480
do we really know uh and then there's

2124
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:30,400
the problem also the fact that there are

2125
01:14:34,630 --> 01:14:32,960
these phenomena that uh you know like

2126
01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:34,640
you know for example

2127
01:14:39,270 --> 01:14:36,880
on the military side anyway we have to

2128
01:14:40,709 --> 01:14:39,280
look at defense and we have to perceive

2129
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:40,719
it being a threat because we don't

2130
01:14:43,350 --> 01:14:42,000
understand what it is and where it's

2131
01:14:45,350 --> 01:14:43,360
from and everything else and what it's

2132
01:14:46,229 --> 01:14:45,360
doing we don't know what its intent is

2133
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:46,239
right

2134
01:14:50,630 --> 01:14:48,560
so when you have these drones that are

2135
01:14:51,669 --> 01:14:50,640
plaguing these ships these military

2136
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:51,679
ships

2137
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:53,360
and you know they're they're spending

2138
01:14:57,750 --> 01:14:55,040
time and following them and everything

2139
01:15:01,030 --> 01:14:57,760
else you know is that a threat or is

2140
01:15:03,110 --> 01:15:01,040
that not a threat and you know is and do

2141
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:03,120
we really know what the origin is is

2142
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:05,040
that really the russians or the chinese

2143
01:15:08,310 --> 01:15:06,400
that are doing something and they've

2144
01:15:10,550 --> 01:15:08,320
just advanced the technology

2145
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:10,560
so you know from a military standpoint

2146
01:15:14,950 --> 01:15:12,080
in the defense standpoint you have to

2147
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:14,960
treat it as being a critical threat

2148
01:15:19,750 --> 01:15:17,280
and then determine from your analysis or

2149
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:19,760
you know whatever that it is whether it

2150
01:15:25,189 --> 01:15:22,480
could be potentially uh this was maybe a

2151
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:25,199
uap or this is really a drone from

2152
01:15:30,550 --> 01:15:28,560
another country right so uh it's one of

2153
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:30,560
those like things you have to consider

2154
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:32,080
and look at it you know from that

2155
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:33,840
standpoint as well right well the drone

2156
01:15:37,590 --> 01:15:35,840
from the other country thinks so this

2157
01:15:39,350 --> 01:15:37,600
really irks me and this will be

2158
01:15:40,709 --> 01:15:39,360
something you probably notice about the

2159
01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:40,719
this you'll probably agree with me rich

2160
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:43,040
about the the hearing is we want to

2161
01:15:49,270 --> 01:15:46,800
pretend ours no cases before 2004 right

2162
01:15:50,870 --> 01:15:49,280
and and i i i don't want to get into a

2163
01:15:52,709 --> 01:15:50,880
rabbit hole of what the motive could be

2164
01:15:54,950 --> 01:15:52,719
for that but i wanted to point out that

2165
01:15:56,709 --> 01:15:54,960
in the movie a tear in the sky there's a

2166
01:15:59,750 --> 01:15:56,719
scene where i'm sitting with travis and

2167
01:16:02,630 --> 01:15:59,760
kevin and talking and i point out

2168
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:02,640
that there are there there were these um

2169
01:16:04,950 --> 01:16:03,920
you'll probably notice documents you

2170
01:16:07,030 --> 01:16:04,960
know i'm talking about this was in the

2171
01:16:09,669 --> 01:16:07,040
history channel show on identify talking

2172
01:16:11,669 --> 01:16:09,679
about flying white butane tanks in the

2173
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:11,679
1940s 50s

2174
01:16:15,750 --> 01:16:13,679
ah that sounds a lot like a tic tac to

2175
01:16:17,590 --> 01:16:15,760
me a 40 foot white butane tank that

2176
01:16:20,310 --> 01:16:17,600
sounds like exactly the same thing

2177
01:16:22,310 --> 01:16:20,320
almost and that and let's see in russia

2178
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:22,320
and china let's see russia

2179
01:16:27,430 --> 01:16:25,280
just was recovering from world war ii

2180
01:16:29,990 --> 01:16:27,440
china was recovering from his world war

2181
01:16:31,750 --> 01:16:30,000
ii and a civil war communist nationalist

2182
01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:31,760
oh but i'm sure they had you know

2183
01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:34,000
breakthrough attack in you know why why

2184
01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:35,520
didn't they use it against the nazis in

2185
01:16:41,350 --> 01:16:38,560
japanese so like the absurdity of the oh

2186
01:16:43,189 --> 01:16:41,360
it's russia china if that's true why the

2187
01:16:47,189 --> 01:16:43,199
hell are there cases from the 40s and

2188
01:16:48,950 --> 01:16:47,199
50s describing what sounds like um the

2189
01:16:50,870 --> 01:16:48,960
nimitz encounter you know how do you

2190
01:16:53,030 --> 01:16:50,880
explain that how do you how does that i

2191
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:53,040
can yeah let me do a counter argument

2192
01:16:56,470 --> 01:16:55,440
with you okay if there's any truth to a

2193
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:56,480
crash

2194
01:17:01,750 --> 01:17:00,239
and other countries have had them

2195
01:17:03,430 --> 01:17:01,760
then there's no reason why they couldn't

2196
01:17:05,270 --> 01:17:03,440
have had a breakthrough technology in

2197
01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:05,280
terms of re uh you know using the

2198
01:17:08,709 --> 01:17:07,600
material that they got from the crash or

2199
01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:08,719
doing something like that with

2200
01:17:13,189 --> 01:17:10,960
re-engineering it so they might not be

2201
01:17:15,430 --> 01:17:13,199
going on a full-scale tic deck but maybe

2202
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:15,440
they're using some of this as drones

2203
01:17:18,709 --> 01:17:16,480
technology

2204
01:17:20,950 --> 01:17:18,719
and by the way you know

2205
01:17:23,189 --> 01:17:20,960
i'm right now in the process and i have

2206
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:23,199
a project of the army where i'm putting

2207
01:17:27,590 --> 01:17:24,960
in uh we're putting in at the army

2208
01:17:30,229 --> 01:17:27,600
material command and throughout the dod

2209
01:17:31,990 --> 01:17:30,239
drone killing devices and we have we're

2210
01:17:34,470 --> 01:17:32,000
putting in and spending a lot of money

2211
01:17:37,030 --> 01:17:34,480
at all of our installations our ranges

2212
01:17:39,430 --> 01:17:37,040
and all of our maybe like the ships to

2213
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:39,440
be able to do that because we know that

2214
01:17:44,630 --> 01:17:42,080
drones are advancing in terms of their

2215
01:17:47,430 --> 01:17:44,640
technical understanding and abilities uh

2216
01:17:49,189 --> 01:17:47,440
across the world and

2217
01:17:51,830 --> 01:17:49,199
so i'm just going to say that we have to

2218
01:17:53,750 --> 01:17:51,840
play you have to determine which is

2219
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:53,760
which is that really the the russian

2220
01:17:57,910 --> 01:17:55,760
drone and and not

2221
01:17:59,110 --> 01:17:57,920
i'm not talking about tic tacs yeah no i

2222
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:59,120
know what you mean but look i'm

2223
01:18:01,990 --> 01:18:00,239
skeptical in the whole reverse

2224
01:18:03,990 --> 01:18:02,000
engineering angle that ties into we're

2225
01:18:05,910 --> 01:18:04,000
talking about earlier in my opinion if

2226
01:18:08,630 --> 01:18:05,920
we have stuff and like i said i'm not at

2227
01:18:10,470 --> 01:18:08,640
all convinced we have stuff if we do

2228
01:18:12,229 --> 01:18:10,480
we don't have the faintest idea how to

2229
01:18:13,830 --> 01:18:12,239
reverse engineer it it would be like

2230
01:18:16,950 --> 01:18:13,840
giving a laptop

2231
01:18:19,270 --> 01:18:16,960
to michael faraday in the 1890s the one

2232
01:18:20,870 --> 01:18:19,280
of the most brilliant scientists or you

2233
01:18:22,709 --> 01:18:20,880
know james clerk maxwell you know

2234
01:18:24,630 --> 01:18:22,719
maxwell's equations and be like hey

2235
01:18:26,149 --> 01:18:24,640
figure this out they wouldn't have they

2236
01:18:27,669 --> 01:18:26,159
could spend the rest of their lives on

2237
01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:27,679
it after the battery died they would

2238
01:18:30,950 --> 01:18:30,080
have no idea and to corroborate what i'm

2239
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:30,960
saying

2240
01:18:34,229 --> 01:18:32,960
kevin has talked to i don't know if it

2241
01:18:36,229 --> 01:18:34,239
was a private conversation so i won't

2242
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:36,239
say he who he talked to but famous

2243
01:18:41,030 --> 01:18:39,040
person at seu kevin confronted someone

2244
01:18:43,110 --> 01:18:41,040
on this who is alleged to be working

2245
01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:43,120
with parts and be like oh you know i

2246
01:18:46,550 --> 01:18:45,040
think what if this part is that part

2247
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:46,560
this is the computer and this is the

2248
01:18:50,550 --> 01:18:48,960
navigation and this in this scientist

2249
01:18:52,149 --> 01:18:50,560
said to kevin

2250
01:18:54,149 --> 01:18:52,159
kevin we wouldn't even know the

2251
01:18:56,149 --> 01:18:54,159
difference between the the navigational

2252
01:18:57,990 --> 01:18:56,159
computer and a sandwich

2253
01:18:59,590 --> 01:18:58,000
and so this was even admitted by the

2254
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:59,600
people who claimed to be reverse

2255
01:19:02,149 --> 01:19:00,880
engineering for the government even

2256
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:02,159
admitted that

2257
01:19:07,669 --> 01:19:04,719
to uh to to have to kevin knew saying

2258
01:19:10,390 --> 01:19:07,679
yeah it's we have no clue

2259
01:19:12,550 --> 01:19:10,400
no clue like i said laptop imagine

2260
01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:12,560
michael faraday with a laptop hell

2261
01:19:17,910 --> 01:19:15,040
imagine albert einstein with an iphone

2262
01:19:20,390 --> 01:19:17,920
he would never figure it out ever i

2263
01:19:22,149 --> 01:19:20,400
claim even if he had a team of people he

2264
01:19:24,550 --> 01:19:22,159
would never figure out how in a high one

2265
01:19:26,550 --> 01:19:24,560
iphone works before he would die

2266
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:26,560
that's that's where we're at i think if

2267
01:19:30,470 --> 01:19:28,560
we have anything if we have something

2268
01:19:32,229 --> 01:19:30,480
well i think it's hopeless i beg to

2269
01:19:33,830 --> 01:19:32,239
differ but anyway you're right i hope

2270
01:19:36,390 --> 01:19:33,840
you're right that's okay

2271
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:36,400
that's okay uh you know i mean i just i

2272
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:40,950
i missed part of the conversation

2273
01:19:45,110 --> 01:19:43,199
because my internet's absolute garbage

2274
01:19:46,630 --> 01:19:45,120
but my understands you're talking about

2275
01:19:48,229 --> 01:19:46,640
if something crashed how would we

2276
01:19:50,630 --> 01:19:48,239
reverse engineer it without the

2277
01:19:52,149 --> 01:19:50,640
technology or knowledge to figure it out

2278
01:19:53,590 --> 01:19:52,159
it would be hopeless

2279
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:53,600
more optimistic i think i agree with

2280
01:19:57,430 --> 01:19:55,280
both of you

2281
01:19:59,350 --> 01:19:57,440
say roswell happened and it's a highly

2282
01:20:02,310 --> 01:19:59,360
sophisticated craft

2283
01:20:04,070 --> 01:20:02,320
but i mean at 1947 we would have no idea

2284
01:20:06,790 --> 01:20:04,080
what any of it was how it worked but by

2285
01:20:08,229 --> 01:20:06,800
now with some 70 years to figure it out

2286
01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:08,239
i mean couldn't we be at a place where

2287
01:20:12,149 --> 01:20:10,320
now we're implementing that technology

2288
01:20:14,149 --> 01:20:12,159
and using some of its basic

2289
01:20:16,310 --> 01:20:14,159
elements at least in the present no but

2290
01:20:18,629 --> 01:20:16,320
my point was that wasn't possible in the

2291
01:20:20,229 --> 01:20:18,639
late 40s though i was

2292
01:20:22,070 --> 01:20:20,239
discussing with rich the the thing about

2293
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:22,080
the flying white butane tanks that

2294
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:24,239
people saw in the 40s and i'm saying

2295
01:20:27,030 --> 01:20:25,760
that there's no way

2296
01:20:29,110 --> 01:20:27,040
we could have reverse engineered

2297
01:20:31,110 --> 01:20:29,120
something that fast and that was my

2298
01:20:33,430 --> 01:20:31,120
point no decades that i will give you

2299
01:20:35,510 --> 01:20:33,440
and i'll give rich that point is is when

2300
01:20:37,590 --> 01:20:35,520
i was saying now it's impossible what i

2301
01:20:40,149 --> 01:20:37,600
meant is you're not going to like take

2302
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:40,159
two or even five years and figure it out

2303
01:20:44,149 --> 01:20:42,480
it's going to take decades of the best

2304
01:20:46,070 --> 01:20:44,159
and brightest minds it's going to take

2305
01:20:48,310 --> 01:20:46,080
and there's so much back in antiquity

2306
01:20:51,750 --> 01:20:48,320
too i mean jacques vale's book wonder in

2307
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:51,760
the sky and so many richard stutters too

2308
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:53,679
traced all of these cases back thousands

2309
01:20:57,270 --> 01:20:55,440
of years which is the same thing you

2310
01:20:59,510 --> 01:20:57,280
know and i like matthew's point too

2311
01:21:01,510 --> 01:20:59,520
about the relativist relativistic time

2312
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:01,520
dilation thing i talk about that a lot

2313
01:21:04,709 --> 01:21:03,120
in my new book and how they this it

2314
01:21:06,390 --> 01:21:04,719
could be the same beings being perceived

2315
01:21:08,070 --> 01:21:06,400
in different ways by these different

2316
01:21:09,910 --> 01:21:08,080
groups who as you go back farther in

2317
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:09,920
time or more primitive have

2318
01:21:13,270 --> 01:21:11,520
fewer things they can compare it to to

2319
01:21:14,470 --> 01:21:13,280
understand it but as we get more evolved

2320
01:21:16,550 --> 01:21:14,480
and we start to have more of these

2321
01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:16,560
technologies ourselves we can start to

2322
01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:19,920
put it in in more comprehensible terms

2323
01:21:24,709 --> 01:21:22,560
yeah and and to my my point was that not

2324
01:21:26,950 --> 01:21:24,719
necessarily that i'm expecting that the

2325
01:21:28,709 --> 01:21:26,960
the drone is necessarily you know

2326
01:21:31,110 --> 01:21:28,719
something that was built back and from

2327
01:21:32,870 --> 01:21:31,120
roswell or whatever but my my point was

2328
01:21:34,870 --> 01:21:32,880
that the materials

2329
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:34,880
might give unique properties or

2330
01:21:37,990 --> 01:21:36,480
something of that nature that you can

2331
01:21:40,229 --> 01:21:38,000
figure out and you might be able to

2332
01:21:42,550 --> 01:21:40,239
utilize that and there's also the belief

2333
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:42,560
that for example nitinol or shape memory

2334
01:21:47,350 --> 01:21:45,280
alloys did come from going to patel

2335
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:47,360
memorial institute which actually was

2336
01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:49,440
contracted with blue book

2337
01:21:53,189 --> 01:21:51,280
that would have had maybe the roswell

2338
01:21:54,790 --> 01:21:53,199
materials passed off to it and maybe

2339
01:21:57,270 --> 01:21:54,800
that's helping

2340
01:21:59,750 --> 01:21:57,280
to be able to push us ahead with that

2341
01:22:01,110 --> 01:21:59,760
particular shape memory alloy so i guess

2342
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:01,120
what i'm trying to say is and that's not

2343
01:22:04,629 --> 01:22:03,120
necessarily figuring out the craft but

2344
01:22:06,550 --> 01:22:04,639
it's you figuring out how you can

2345
01:22:08,470 --> 01:22:06,560
utilize the materials

2346
01:22:10,310 --> 01:22:08,480
in the engineering no you may be right

2347
01:22:12,470 --> 01:22:10,320
rich i'm open to that possibility and

2348
01:22:14,950 --> 01:22:12,480
that's that's what i was trying to say i

2349
01:22:17,110 --> 01:22:14,960
was not necessarily saying that that

2350
01:22:20,470 --> 01:22:17,120
they're we have figured it out and we're

2351
01:22:22,229 --> 01:22:20,480
flying them i i'm saying that materials

2352
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:22,239
or something of that nature could be

2353
01:22:27,270 --> 01:22:24,239
actually reutilized and we're starting

2354
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:27,280
to see some of that happen from previous

2355
01:22:30,790 --> 01:22:29,040
crashes well

2356
01:22:32,390 --> 01:22:30,800
i can give you a story that actually

2357
01:22:33,990 --> 01:22:32,400
corroborates what you just said that's a

2358
01:22:36,790 --> 01:22:34,000
really good point that that i had

2359
01:22:38,629 --> 01:22:36,800
forgotten myself even actually

2360
01:22:39,830 --> 01:22:38,639
i just remembered that once when i was

2361
01:22:42,310 --> 01:22:39,840
um

2362
01:22:44,149 --> 01:22:42,320
i i remember watching unsolved mysteries

2363
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:44,159
and you know there was the robert stack

2364
01:22:48,790 --> 01:22:47,280
and talking about the roswell crash and

2365
01:22:50,870 --> 01:22:48,800
then they were showing like people

2366
01:22:53,669 --> 01:22:50,880
describing the materials and i was like

2367
01:22:55,510 --> 01:22:53,679
ah well that's that's that's that's

2368
01:22:58,149 --> 01:22:55,520
boring that's just aluminized mylar i

2369
01:22:59,910 --> 01:22:58,159
use that as a grad student but then i

2370
01:23:02,550 --> 01:22:59,920
googled it and i realized aluminized

2371
01:23:04,790 --> 01:23:02,560
mylar had not been invented yet and

2372
01:23:06,870 --> 01:23:04,800
similarly teflon and other description

2373
01:23:08,709 --> 01:23:06,880
materials where originally i was very

2374
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:08,719
very extra skeptical i was like yeah but

2375
01:23:13,270 --> 01:23:11,120
that's just aluminized mylar and teflon

2376
01:23:15,669 --> 01:23:13,280
but then i googled it and i'm like uh

2377
01:23:17,750 --> 01:23:15,679
wait that wasn't invented until 10 years

2378
01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:17,760
after that right so

2379
01:23:21,430 --> 01:23:19,440
then i started the question

2380
01:23:23,350 --> 01:23:21,440
question question that so yeah no that

2381
01:23:25,350 --> 01:23:23,360
that's that is a valid point i was

2382
01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:25,360
saying that but figuring it all out and

2383
01:23:29,110 --> 01:23:27,520
like flying drones around yeah i am very

2384
01:23:31,669 --> 01:23:29,120
skeptical would be able to do that

2385
01:23:33,830 --> 01:23:31,679
easily not without decades of hard work

2386
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:33,840
yeah and my point about the the drone

2387
01:23:38,070 --> 01:23:35,600
thing was literally that just that the

2388
01:23:39,750 --> 01:23:38,080
military has to treat it both from a

2389
01:23:42,310 --> 01:23:39,760
standpoint of it's potentially

2390
01:23:43,270 --> 01:23:42,320
earth-based or it might be something

2391
01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:43,280
else

2392
01:23:47,990 --> 01:23:46,080
i'll point out to you that uh that i

2393
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:48,000
heard recently it's it's been all over

2394
01:23:51,590 --> 01:23:50,000
the news about about the fact that they

2395
01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:51,600
tried to use these drone killing

2396
01:23:57,510 --> 01:23:55,679
technologies on one and it didn't work

2397
01:23:59,350 --> 01:23:57,520
so uh obviously it might have been

2398
01:24:00,709 --> 01:23:59,360
utilizing some other kind of technology

2399
01:24:03,110 --> 01:24:00,719
other than what we think that a drone

2400
01:24:05,669 --> 01:24:03,120
should be but you know my point is that

2401
01:24:07,030 --> 01:24:05,679
you still have to from a defense posture

2402
01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:07,040
you still have to look at it as a

2403
01:24:11,270 --> 01:24:09,040
potential threat and you don't know

2404
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:11,280
where it's from and that's why you see

2405
01:24:15,669 --> 01:24:13,920
these things as being uh

2406
01:24:17,030 --> 01:24:15,679
in the hearing they claim that the green

2407
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:17,040
triangles well they're not green you

2408
01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:18,960
know what i mean night vision oh we've

2409
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:20,480
we've solved that one

2410
01:24:26,070 --> 01:24:23,840
um okay so was that russia china

2411
01:24:27,830 --> 01:24:26,080
tell us what the hell so yeah that was

2412
01:24:30,470 --> 01:24:27,840
that was intriguing they're like oh we

2413
01:24:31,590 --> 01:24:30,480
figured that one out um okay great can

2414
01:24:32,790 --> 01:24:31,600
you tell us

2415
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:32,800
yeah

2416
01:24:37,669 --> 01:24:34,560
well i can help you out with that

2417
01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:37,679
because i actually studied that myself

2418
01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:39,760
so what you had is a situation where an

2419
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:42,480
individual's got like a you know gen one

2420
01:24:47,430 --> 01:24:45,120
type of night vision kind of like lens

2421
01:24:49,189 --> 01:24:47,440
it doesn't have the means of recording

2422
01:24:52,149 --> 01:24:49,199
so he holds up his

2423
01:24:54,870 --> 01:24:52,159
slr camera oh no no that aspect i know

2424
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:54,880
we did that on uapx all right no no no i

2425
01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:56,880
get the triangle is fake it's with

2426
01:25:01,030 --> 01:24:58,880
filtering dave mason already explained

2427
01:25:04,229 --> 01:25:01,040
that he figured that out the aperture

2428
01:25:06,870 --> 01:25:04,239
was a creates a bokeh effect yeah that i

2429
01:25:09,910 --> 01:25:06,880
got but what are they what are they but

2430
01:25:11,910 --> 01:25:09,920
the blink rate also from the lights was

2431
01:25:14,550 --> 01:25:11,920
phil it was exactly what we have as a

2432
01:25:16,870 --> 01:25:14,560
standard for navigation lights it was

2433
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:16,880
blinking at the rate

2434
01:25:21,910 --> 01:25:20,159
that you have for other aircraft so

2435
01:25:23,990 --> 01:25:21,920
who's were they then

2436
01:25:26,310 --> 01:25:24,000
well again the origin you wouldn't be

2437
01:25:27,910 --> 01:25:26,320
able to determine right and that's why

2438
01:25:29,750 --> 01:25:27,920
we're concerned about it because we're

2439
01:25:31,350 --> 01:25:29,760
saying like we don't know could a

2440
01:25:33,110 --> 01:25:31,360
submarine have been over there and

2441
01:25:34,950 --> 01:25:33,120
launched drones and they're testing it

2442
01:25:38,149 --> 01:25:34,960
on our people and then they're under

2443
01:25:40,390 --> 01:25:38,159
water and it comes back or is it was it

2444
01:25:42,550 --> 01:25:40,400
launched from space or something of that

2445
01:25:44,470 --> 01:25:42,560
nature dropped from an aircraft

2446
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:44,480
people are doing a mill i mean groups

2447
01:25:48,709 --> 01:25:46,880
are testing military swarm technology

2448
01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:48,719
they've got other kinds of fuel systems

2449
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:49,920
on these things

2450
01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,840
and so you have to understand that you

2451
01:25:55,270 --> 01:25:53,600
know i used to think well i've got a

2452
01:25:57,030 --> 01:25:55,280
drone i fly it out here but i have a

2453
01:25:59,030 --> 01:25:57,040
battery on it right well these things

2454
01:26:00,709 --> 01:25:59,040
are you've got fuel on them

2455
01:26:02,629 --> 01:26:00,719
and they could stay up for long times

2456
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:02,639
and shoot up but incredible and and so

2457
01:26:06,310 --> 01:26:04,239
that's what we're talking about we have

2458
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:06,320
to like understand that drone technology

2459
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:08,960
is way advanced and we're putting

2460
01:26:13,750 --> 01:26:11,840
together across the world all different

2461
01:26:16,229 --> 01:26:13,760
kinds of drones with all kinds of

2462
01:26:18,149 --> 01:26:16,239
capabilities that have in themselves

2463
01:26:20,070 --> 01:26:18,159
that can do jamming they can do a whole

2464
01:26:22,149 --> 01:26:20,080
variety of things that the objects

2465
01:26:25,189 --> 01:26:22,159
allegedly are doing as well so we have

2466
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:25,199
to now discern between those

2467
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:27,199
uh you you to point out to me some

2468
01:26:31,350 --> 01:26:29,040
country either us or russia or china

2469
01:26:32,950 --> 01:26:31,360
that can pull a few hundred g

2470
01:26:34,310 --> 01:26:32,960
several tens of thousands of miles an

2471
01:26:36,149 --> 01:26:34,320
hour

2472
01:26:38,870 --> 01:26:36,159
like i said before it's not going to

2473
01:26:41,590 --> 01:26:38,880
explain the tic tac okay yeah yeah yeah

2474
01:26:43,110 --> 01:26:41,600
i got you you know i mean that

2475
01:26:45,110 --> 01:26:43,120
so you're you might have a mixture of

2476
01:26:47,669 --> 01:26:45,120
both you know and it's we just have to

2477
01:26:49,110 --> 01:26:47,679
know right yeah yeah

2478
01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:49,120
well listen gentlemen we're getting

2479
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:50,719
closing in on the hour and a half mark

2480
01:26:54,470 --> 01:26:52,800
so before we go if you can each just

2481
01:26:55,750 --> 01:26:54,480
give us a little bit of what's going on

2482
01:26:57,189 --> 01:26:55,760
for you next obviously which we

2483
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:57,199
discussed about the conference but

2484
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:59,199
anything else you're working on and

2485
01:27:02,470 --> 01:27:00,560
all your links will be in the the

2486
01:27:04,070 --> 01:27:02,480
description below but yeah if you could

2487
01:27:05,350 --> 01:27:04,080
just give us that little bit of info

2488
01:27:07,110 --> 01:27:05,360
before we say goodbye that would be

2489
01:27:08,229 --> 01:27:07,120
great thank you

2490
01:27:10,070 --> 01:27:08,239
well i mean

2491
01:27:10,870 --> 01:27:10,080
yeah my life's eaten up by conference in

2492
01:27:12,629 --> 01:27:10,880
fact

2493
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:12,639
you know that that whole thing is every

2494
01:27:17,189 --> 01:27:15,520
day i mean matthew probably can tell you

2495
01:27:20,149 --> 01:27:17,199
michael can tell you that these things

2496
01:27:22,229 --> 01:27:20,159
are pretty complex so my life is my life

2497
01:27:23,910 --> 01:27:22,239
is what that's why i didn't know about

2498
01:27:25,830 --> 01:27:23,920
the answers the questions that we were

2499
01:27:28,229 --> 01:27:25,840
asking to because i haven't had time to

2500
01:27:30,470 --> 01:27:28,239
deal with that right so to be that to be

2501
01:27:32,470 --> 01:27:30,480
fair i'm i'm glad that i was able to

2502
01:27:33,189 --> 01:27:32,480
share with you what i could about it but

2503
01:27:35,270 --> 01:27:33,199
uh

2504
01:27:37,510 --> 01:27:35,280
that's where i'm at right now my life is

2505
01:27:39,189 --> 01:27:37,520
all conference so i'll pass over to

2506
01:27:46,550 --> 01:27:39,199
matthew or somebody else to be able to

2507
01:27:50,470 --> 01:27:48,149
well we've got well like i said earlier

2508
01:27:52,709 --> 01:27:50,480
we got a ton of data to go through

2509
01:27:55,270 --> 01:27:52,719
that we want to share with scu and lo

2510
01:27:58,470 --> 01:27:55,280
the long game is we want to be able to

2511
01:28:00,070 --> 01:27:58,480
get break the cycle of their almost no

2512
01:28:02,390 --> 01:28:00,080
publications there are exceptions as you

2513
01:28:03,350 --> 01:28:02,400
mentioned rich there's um the paper that

2514
01:28:05,830 --> 01:28:03,360
kevin

2515
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:05,840
um peter really robert powell got in in

2516
01:28:09,990 --> 01:28:08,400
a journal in entropy those are more the

2517
01:28:11,990 --> 01:28:10,000
exception than the rule i can probably

2518
01:28:13,669 --> 01:28:12,000
count on the fingers of you i'm sure

2519
01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:13,679
you're familiar with all of them i've

2520
01:28:17,270 --> 01:28:15,520
seen like russia this is a russian one

2521
01:28:20,470 --> 01:28:17,280
and stuff i can count on the fingers of

2522
01:28:23,270 --> 01:28:20,480
one hand the number of papers on ufos

2523
01:28:25,430 --> 01:28:23,280
and uap published in real

2524
01:28:28,229 --> 01:28:25,440
journals like high quality high impact

2525
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:28,239
factor scientific journals it's like

2526
01:28:32,629 --> 01:28:30,080
maybe a second hand i don't think i need

2527
01:28:34,390 --> 01:28:32,639
the second hand yet though and so i i

2528
01:28:36,550 --> 01:28:34,400
think that we want to break through that

2529
01:28:37,990 --> 01:28:36,560
stigma more and that taboo because

2530
01:28:39,990 --> 01:28:38,000
everyone's talking about oh the stigma

2531
01:28:42,229 --> 01:28:40,000
is gone i know it's not it's definitely

2532
01:28:45,189 --> 01:28:42,239
reduced it's mitigated and i'm glad they

2533
01:28:47,830 --> 01:28:45,199
brought this up at the hearing but again

2534
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:47,840
mitigation is not the same thing as

2535
01:28:53,270 --> 01:28:49,920
elimination there's still plenty of

2536
01:28:53,990 --> 01:28:53,280
stigma in taboo and so we know on uapx

2537
01:28:58,790 --> 01:28:54,000
as

2538
01:29:00,950 --> 01:28:58,800
uphill battle to get anything published

2539
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:00,960
because people will be like oh ufos and

2540
01:29:04,149 --> 01:29:03,360
laugh at us and so but that's the long

2541
01:29:07,110 --> 01:29:04,159
game

2542
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:07,120
is to publish actual papers saying

2543
01:29:12,070 --> 01:29:09,520
here's some atmospheric anomaly you know

2544
01:29:13,990 --> 01:29:12,080
we've we've found so so that's really

2545
01:29:15,830 --> 01:29:14,000
where we're focused right now although i

2546
01:29:17,350 --> 01:29:15,840
have to confess

2547
01:29:19,430 --> 01:29:17,360
you know it's really a side job because

2548
01:29:21,830 --> 01:29:19,440
my day job is to look for dark matter

2549
01:29:23,189 --> 01:29:21,840
and i'm paid to do that and so

2550
01:29:26,229 --> 01:29:23,199
unfortunately

2551
01:29:28,149 --> 01:29:26,239
i can only do uap stuff in my free time

2552
01:29:30,070 --> 01:29:28,159
which i put in air quotes because i have

2553
01:29:32,390 --> 01:29:30,080
none because i have four children

2554
01:29:33,830 --> 01:29:32,400
also but but re and and really this year

2555
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:33,840
the dark matter experiment that i've

2556
01:29:37,430 --> 01:29:35,520
been working on probably over 10 years

2557
01:29:39,750 --> 01:29:37,440
largest one the world is turning on has

2558
01:29:41,990 --> 01:29:39,760
already turned on and so i've really got

2559
01:29:44,149 --> 01:29:42,000
to focus on the mainstream my mainstream

2560
01:29:45,669 --> 01:29:44,159
scientific effort um that's another

2561
01:29:47,430 --> 01:29:45,679
reason why we need more people when

2562
01:29:49,750 --> 01:29:47,440
we're bringing people to help

2563
01:29:51,990 --> 01:29:49,760
look through the uapx data so i mean if

2564
01:29:53,750 --> 01:29:52,000
you wanted a near future summary for me

2565
01:29:55,110 --> 01:29:53,760
there you have it that's pretty looking

2566
01:29:57,110 --> 01:29:55,120
forward to the conference really looking

2567
01:29:59,590 --> 01:29:57,120
forward to seeing rich in person and

2568
01:30:01,669 --> 01:29:59,600
everybody else i'm really really great

2569
01:30:03,189 --> 01:30:01,679
to see people to see people in person

2570
01:30:05,189 --> 01:30:03,199
again looking forward to the conference

2571
01:30:07,590 --> 01:30:05,199
and i really we really hope that our

2572
01:30:09,669 --> 01:30:07,600
talk that kevin and i and christopher

2573
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:09,679
altman will be giving will really blow

2574
01:30:14,149 --> 01:30:11,760
you away we hope

2575
01:30:18,830 --> 01:30:14,159
i'm sure it will uh so michael before we

2576
01:30:24,229 --> 01:30:21,270
on yeah i see you just hit the 90 minute

2577
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:24,239
mark so i'll try to keep it short but

2578
01:30:29,189 --> 01:30:26,400
much like rich uh my life has been

2579
01:30:31,669 --> 01:30:29,199
consumed by one thing and one thing only

2580
01:30:33,350 --> 01:30:31,679
um i've been putting in 14 16 hour days

2581
01:30:35,590 --> 01:30:33,360
trying to get this book finished get the

2582
01:30:38,070 --> 01:30:35,600
audio book recorded um but it's almost

2583
01:30:40,950 --> 01:30:38,080
done i think it'll be out june 1st in

2584
01:30:42,709 --> 01:30:40,960
all three formats ebook paperback and

2585
01:30:44,470 --> 01:30:42,719
audiobook i know i'm excited too it's

2586
01:30:46,390 --> 01:30:44,480
it's it's different than the first one

2587
01:30:48,390 --> 01:30:46,400
it really goes deep into the abduction

2588
01:30:50,709 --> 01:30:48,400
aspect sort of a john mackien approach

2589
01:30:53,350 --> 01:30:50,719
to some extent and um you know

2590
01:30:56,229 --> 01:30:53,360
cautiously examines the abduction and

2591
01:30:58,390 --> 01:30:56,239
contact he aspect of the phenomenon i've

2592
01:31:00,470 --> 01:30:58,400
met so many experiencers over the last

2593
01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:00,480
three years and it's just amazing to me

2594
01:31:04,870 --> 01:31:02,400
the consistency across their reports and

2595
01:31:07,830 --> 01:31:04,880
what happened to them by who what type

2596
01:31:10,070 --> 01:31:07,840
of ship what type of experience they had

2597
01:31:12,149 --> 01:31:10,080
so i'm just trying to look for patterns

2598
01:31:13,669 --> 01:31:12,159
across these cases and it's been a

2599
01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:13,679
tremendously

2600
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:15,440
fun thing to research i mean it's

2601
01:31:19,030 --> 01:31:16,960
something i didn't really have much of a

2602
01:31:21,110 --> 01:31:19,040
background in uh when researching my

2603
01:31:22,149 --> 01:31:21,120
first book and i felt that was kind of a

2604
01:31:24,390 --> 01:31:22,159
flaw

2605
01:31:26,310 --> 01:31:24,400
in that research but um it's been really

2606
01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:26,320
fascinating to look at this and and it's

2607
01:31:30,390 --> 01:31:28,960
kind of been i feel fortunate because it

2608
01:31:33,750 --> 01:31:30,400
it's been the thing i've been

2609
01:31:35,669 --> 01:31:33,760
researching uh my my university lets me

2610
01:31:37,669 --> 01:31:35,679
do this they um

2611
01:31:39,910 --> 01:31:37,679
actually i won a research award this

2612
01:31:43,669 --> 01:31:39,920
week for excellence in research and

2613
01:31:45,990 --> 01:31:43,679
scholarship and all i've been doing

2614
01:31:48,229 --> 01:31:46,000
wow they gave me an award for ufo

2615
01:31:49,030 --> 01:31:48,239
research so it's great i mean talk about

2616
01:31:49,830 --> 01:31:49,040
this

2617
01:31:51,669 --> 01:31:49,840
yeah

2618
01:31:53,750 --> 01:31:51,679
where are you i want to join your

2619
01:31:55,110 --> 01:31:53,760
university yeah well it's great it's one

2620
01:31:56,950 --> 01:31:55,120
of the top science and engineering

2621
01:31:58,950 --> 01:31:56,960
schools in the pacific northwest it's

2622
01:32:00,550 --> 01:31:58,960
montana technological

2623
01:32:02,229 --> 01:32:00,560
university and i yeah i've got great

2624
01:32:04,070 --> 01:32:02,239
respect for my administrators my

2625
01:32:05,830 --> 01:32:04,080
colleagues they've been so supportive

2626
01:32:07,669 --> 01:32:05,840
with all of this and

2627
01:32:09,590 --> 01:32:07,679
uh i mean i i might be the exception to

2628
01:32:11,430 --> 01:32:09,600
the rule but it's it's still been good

2629
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:11,440
to see i wanted to just tell people that

2630
01:32:14,629 --> 01:32:12,719
you know not to brag about my little

2631
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:14,639
award but to let them know that it warms

2632
01:32:18,390 --> 01:32:16,560
my heart to hear you yeah it's it's

2633
01:32:20,709 --> 01:32:18,400
changing this stigma is changing and you

2634
01:32:23,110 --> 01:32:20,719
can work in a place and talk about ufos

2635
01:32:24,790 --> 01:32:23,120
openly where your administrators and

2636
01:32:26,950 --> 01:32:24,800
your colleagues are supportive so i just

2637
01:32:28,629 --> 01:32:26,960
wanted to get that out there but

2638
01:32:30,550 --> 01:32:28,639
i should say our universe our university

2639
01:32:32,870 --> 01:32:30,560
is supportive too but not that kind of

2640
01:32:34,709 --> 01:32:32,880
level of support of like my goodness

2641
01:32:38,149 --> 01:32:34,719
i'm i'm thrilled to hear that i hope

2642
01:32:39,990 --> 01:32:38,159
yeah i was too and i i yeah i think you

2643
01:32:41,910 --> 01:32:40,000
know my dean sent me an email on tuesday

2644
01:32:43,669 --> 01:32:41,920
and i said thank you she said you're

2645
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:43,679
incredibly deserving of this and i was

2646
01:32:48,390 --> 01:32:45,840
like wow what is happening

2647
01:32:49,590 --> 01:32:48,400
what world am i living in now

2648
01:32:52,149 --> 01:32:49,600
that's amazing

2649
01:32:53,669 --> 01:32:52,159
congratulations yeah um well listen

2650
01:32:55,830 --> 01:32:53,679
gentlemen i'm just going to give a quick

2651
01:32:57,910 --> 01:32:55,840
shout out to uh to r r and jimmy the

2652
01:32:59,590 --> 01:32:57,920
earthling they gave us a little donation

2653
01:33:01,750 --> 01:32:59,600
during the live stream so thank you to

2654
01:33:03,430 --> 01:33:01,760
those guys but also to everybody that's

2655
01:33:05,110 --> 01:33:03,440
been having a really great conversation

2656
01:33:06,950 --> 01:33:05,120
in the live chat tonight i'm sorry we

2657
01:33:08,709 --> 01:33:06,960
didn't get to focus on you as much as

2658
01:33:11,189 --> 01:33:08,719
maybe we like to but it was a

2659
01:33:13,350 --> 01:33:11,199
conversation that i didn't want to break

2660
01:33:15,910 --> 01:33:13,360
um it was flowing it's exactly what i

2661
01:33:18,470 --> 01:33:15,920
wanted gentlemen thank you so much it

2662
01:33:20,470 --> 01:33:18,480
was an honor to speak to you all um for

2663
01:33:23,590 --> 01:33:20,480
everybody watching i'm gonna be back on

2664
01:33:25,990 --> 01:33:23,600
tuesday for 30 minutes with gary nolan

2665
01:33:28,070 --> 01:33:26,000
he has gladly offered me a half an hour

2666
01:33:29,750 --> 01:33:28,080
to speak with him so follow me on my

2667
01:33:31,910 --> 01:33:29,760
socials you can check out all the times

2668
01:33:33,350 --> 01:33:31,920
there but one more time gentlemen thank

2669
01:33:35,030 --> 01:33:33,360
you so much i wish you nothing but the

2670
01:33:37,189 --> 01:33:35,040
best in everything you're doing at the

2671
01:33:39,510 --> 01:33:37,199
moment i will certainly be tuning in

2672
01:33:42,149 --> 01:33:39,520
where i can and promoting anything i can

2673
01:33:43,669 --> 01:33:42,159
so once again thank you so much

2674
01:33:45,189 --> 01:33:43,679
thank you vinnie always great talking to

2675
01:33:46,790 --> 01:33:45,199
you yeah thank you very much i

2676
01:33:49,830 --> 01:33:46,800
appreciate it thank you

2677
01:33:51,830 --> 01:33:49,840
uh on that everyone will say goodbye bye

2678
01:33:53,189 --> 01:33:51,840
cheerio bye-bye